Newbie and long-time lurker here looking for some buying advice on a grinder to pair with a prosumer HX or entry DB that I haven't bought yet. My current setup is an Aeropress and a Hario Skerton, along with an EC155 with a broken pump that I use to steam my milk for "lattes". I've been looking at the Profitec Pro 300, Astra Pro, NS Oscar II or Musica, as well as a few stretch options like the Profitec Pro 700. I'm planning to pull the trigger on the first really good deal I see on a solid machine.

Which brings me to the grinder, which is what I'm really confused about. I'm looking for something that exceeds or at least matches the grind quality of the BVario, but without the sliding grind settings I've read so many horror stories about. I don't care if it's a manual, and price is a huge factor. I really, really don't want to spend $1500 on the grinder. Most important factors for me are grind quality, price, stable settings, and retention. I was looking at the Pharos and the Lido-E, as well as the Eureka Zenith (which I'd look for lightly used/on sale). The consensus seems to be that the Pharos will clearly outdo the BVario, but is a PITA. But if it's that clear with grind quality, I'm happy to put up with it. Also, someone on CoffeeGeek suggested that the Ceado E37S is objectively better than the Zenith, but I'm wondering if that's the case. Plus the E37S would really be stretching it for me.

Anyway, thoughts?

If you're OK with a manual grinder, and 1500 is your limit, how about the HG-1?

Hmm, you're right, that would be the obvious choice given my parameters. My main concern with the HG-1 is the fact that it has the size and price tag of an electric grinder, so it sort of defeats the purpose of having a hand grinder. It's over triple the cost of the Pharos, and I don't know if there's going to be any improvement in the cup, so I'd be spending the extra for basically ergonomics. Another thing that sort of put me off was that on one thread here, a user had to crank the thing 10x as many times as other users, and the manufacturer basically said it was normal, which was obviously not the case. Of course, there really is a clear difference in the cup versus the Pharos, it moves to the top of my list regardless.

The Pharos and the HG1 taste pretty much identical in the cup, assuming the are both well aligned. I have been using the a Pharos for a few years and it is very much a PITA user experience-wise but you get used to it after a while. The Lido E is at least as good in the cup as a Vario, in fact I slightly preferred it, and it is easier to use than a Pharos, but the Vario is one of the most convenient grinders I've ever used and surprisingly portable for an electric grinder. If you want a Pharos with better ergonomics you could consider the Mahlgut. I'm not sure what they are priced at right now but I am very happy with mine and it cost me a few hundred less than an HG1. It is just as portable as the Pharos and a bit easier on the eyes.

If you are looking at a big flat at around the 1k price range
I've heard good things about the Ceado E37s and almost bought one, but I've no experience with it. I've also heard great things about the Anfim Super Caimano. Once again, no expertise with the Super Caimano but those that have them seem to love them.

I love my HG-1. I parked my K-30 ( I may sell) in favor of the HG-1, and I love the K-30. Regarding that poor guy who has the poorly performing HG-1 I bet they'll find out it is something screwy causing the problem. My money is on user error. God knows i've made some dumb mistakes that for sure was not my fault

Don't downplay ergonomics. The HG-1 is a joy to use, however, if you like lightly roasted beans, get electric.

chipman wrote: Don't downplay ergonomics. The HG-1 is a joy to use, however, if you like lightly roasted beans, get electric.

Or a gym membership

I couldn't make baratza vario work consistently. In fact I would go as far as saying you're significantly more better off with $2k grinder and $500 espresso machine than the other way around. I bought a kafatek monolith after trying a couple of grinders in $500 range with poor results. Very happy with my monolith.

Hi !

First of all, I think the Vario is a pretty good grinder in it's price range and i'm surprised about your thoughts about it. Every product will have it's problems and good/bad comments/reviews related to it and there is always a solution to enjoy your gear working properly and some checkpoints to analyse on the copy you buy before going home with it. I can talk for hours about this grinder but I respect your choice to put it aside.

1- If you make let's say 3 or 4 drinks per session, maybe you will be interested to go motorised. Or maybe spending more time on the prep is not a problem for you and the option of a manual grinder is still the best. In the price range you are asking, there is not a lot of options and I think the Vario is still the best buy for the taste in the cup you will get before deciding to upgrade.

2- Going to manual is leading you to more quality for the buck because you are not paying for electronics or complicated mechanics. I own a HG-1 and i'm pretty satisfied about it, and yes, it's a big step in the quality of the cup and taste compared to my Vario but the range of flavours is also not the same. Pharos, Lido or Ceado just can't be wrong too, but I just can't talk about them because I never owned one of those. Going manual is also a convenience feature for you if you single dose and/or like to switch beans often.

3- I'm in the bunch saying grinder is the most important tool with the biggest impact on the taste in the cup. You will get convenience, esthetics and some features allowing you to produce a better cup with a better machine, but you will notice consistency and forgiveness at first.

I'm pretty sure you will get some answers here about the grinder you need.

Judging by Jim's recent comments it looks like the new Sette might be the ultimate no fuss newbie grinder, and its cheaper than a vario to boot.

I love my Pharos too much to call it a PITA, but it certainly has a learning curve. And there's no denying that light roasts are a workout. I hesitate to recommend it for a newbie because adding grinder struggles to the learning curve you'll already have as a beginner may be a bit much. Its hands down the best value in a large burr conical though.

I myself am seriously considering a monolith, but that's an awful big price tag for a newbie to swallow. On the plus side, assuming you can afford it, even if you decide espresso is not for you you should have no problem selling it.

Nate42 wrote: I love my Pharos too much to call it a PITA.

Me too. If it cost twice the price then there might be a reason to nitpick about it, but for the money it is simply amazing. Plus it is easy to modify to better meet your needs.

I personally have no need to modify mine. Retention is 0.0-0,3g as it is.