After a lot of first hand experience owning a lot of espresso machines, my feeling is that personal ergonomic and emotional fit is the most important thing once you cross the boundary of mechanically competent machines (my experience sets that boundary as a basic prosumer e61 HX and above, but a DBD or a PID SBDU may be a more contemporary baseline). These are tools of a craft, and your own connection to them is what will take you from good espresso to great espresso. I would think about which "interface" really compliments your own nature best. If you prefer tactile control then the spring lever is the way to go. If you need the security/reliability of measurements then the flow control e61 is probably a better fit. For me the important thing is making a connection between my palate and the machines behavior so that I can allow my intuition to help guide me as I explore the flavor landscape of a roast (this can sound flowery but my mental image of coffee extraction is a sort of vibrating 3 dimensional space that I can move around in and twist and bend and amplify)

Todd+ wrote:Is the Argos on your radar? I just ordered one. For me it checks off all the boxes I'm looking for from something like the Bianca (or even pricier machines), but at a fraction of the price.

I have seen the Argos, from what I saw they seemed to always be out of stock, but I've been lightly eyeing reviews to see how formidable it is. Waiting to hear more consensus on the workflow and steaming power since the misses usually takes a latte. Hope its everything you were looking for and more!

russel wrote:After a lot of first hand experience owning a lot of espresso machines, my feeling is that personal ergonomic and emotional fit is the most important thing once you cross the boundary of mechanically competent machines (my experience sets that boundary as a basic prosumer e61 HX and above, but a DBD or a PID SBDU may be a more contemporary baseline). These are tools of a craft, and your own connection to them is what will take you from good espresso to great espresso. I would think about which "interface" really compliments your own nature best. If you prefer tactile control then the spring lever is the way to go. If you need the security/reliability of measurements then the flow control e61 is probably a better fit. For me the important thing is making a connection between my palate and the machines behavior so that I can allow my intuition to help guide me as I explore the flavor landscape of a roast (this can sound flowery but my mental image of coffee extraction is a sort of vibrating 3 dimensional space that I can move around in and twist and bend and amplify)

I can see that, especially in the land of diminishing returns. I'm very much the over thinker type so at the end of the day I may very well just have to pick one and never look back

mathof wrote:When it comes to comparing pump and lever machines, I was struck by two recent Blog reviews of the LM Linea Micra in which it was subjected to blind taste comparisons by two very knowledgeable HB members. Jim Schulman found little difference between flat profiled shots from the Micra and pressure profiled ones from the Lelit Bianca :

Oh wow I have not seen that. Interesting note. I have been wondering in the back of my mind whether the temperature stability on something like the micra combined with lowering the pressure to 6-7 instead of 9 bars could produce shots to rival a machine with pressure profiling. (Based on those who enjoy light to medium roasts with flat machines lowering brew pressure and reporting smoother results in the cup).

I'll definitely have to take a look at that thread, and greatly appreciate you providing some paraphrasing there.

mathof wrote: Maybe those are right who say that the choice among prosumer machines should be made on the basis of features such as aesthetics and workflow rather than results in the cup.

I've also come to that conclusion. I owned a Rocket R58 with an added a flow control device. A year ago I purchased a Londinium Compressa, and did several blind side by side tastings of espresso from each machine. The difference, while noticeable, was quite small. I did pick the Londinium shots - a relief since I'd just bought it - because they tended to have a slightly richer body and more pleasing rounded flavor, but the difference was subtle. Both machines produced really good shots.

For a while I planned on keeping both and switching between them on different days. Eventually, though, I sold the Rocket after finding myself looking forward to the days of using the lever, and regretting going back to the Flow Control E61. This was not because the espresso had become disappointing from the Rocket, but because I preferred the "feel" and silence of using the Londinium. Also, the simplicity of pulling shots on a spring lever was, to me, hugely preferable to thinking about and messing with the flow control.

But, I can certainly understand why many people have other preferences. It's a subjective and individual decision.

I've been using e61's for 17 years or so, and I was looking at the Bianca, Micra, and ECM machines recently to upgrade. What did I end up with?

LR24. Why? Any upgrade had to brew better espresso, and most people with experience on both prefer levers. So I dove down the lever hole, and the R24, Nurri, and Profitec became my top choices (in that order). My luck, someone hit me up here with a local R24 sale, so I got to try before I bought, and I walked out with it. It was a no brainer: espresso is a step up from my E61 (which I know how to extract every bit of good out of it), it's beautiful and feels expensive, and the silence is beautiful. I have 0 doubts about it, and 0 interest in ever going back. Micra what?

I completely agree with you. I forgot to mention in my comments that, like you, the Londinium cured my upgraditis. Now I'm free to obsess over grinders exclusively, as god intended.

I actually was pretty upgradeitis free for many years; my Astra Pro was REALLY capable, and while I had it I upgraded grinders, to the latest Fiorenzato Doge Conical. That grinder is pretty amazing, and the only reason to upgrade, for me, would be to get a smaller grinder, or one with a more direct grind path.

I love making espresso, always have. But the Astra was the limiting factor. Now, I've returned to the place where 'I' am the limiting factor, and that feels so awesome. I'm excited to explore the capabilities of the Londinium!

I had a DE1 with all the flow and temp controls. Switched to an LR a few years ago and never looked back. I found the grinder to be the more important factor in getting the best espresso with the light roasts I enjoy. The only machine that gets tagged in it's place is the Strietman CT2.