Flair Pro 2 vs. Cafelat Robot vs. ROK GC - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
GregoryJ

#11: Post by GregoryJ »

Halfrican2004 wrote:I was considering this grinder, or a Chestnut G1. Thoughts?
There are many hand grinders available now that will fit the bill. You do want pretty small steps, but you're not restricted as much as you are with a pump machine because you will press and feel whether you need to let up on the pressure or not. The JX-pro and JE-plus both have 12.5um steps. The BPlus Apollo has 30um steps (though I've heard you can ask for a finer 10um step thread).

The 1Z JX-Pro is a nice option, and a great value for the money. Also great if you think you might be doing some filter coffee as well.

If you're only doing espresso, I prefer the grinders with 47mm Italmill burrs. The 1Z JE-plus, BPlus Apollo, and Kinu M47 use the Italmill burrs. If you're planning to travel with it, the JE-plus is a very nice option. The BPlus Apollo is a bit pricier and heavier, but also feels really nice to use.

User avatar
Jeff
Team HB

#12: Post by Jeff »

I believe user Ken5 ordered direct from Germany and received a different Kinu M47 very quickly.

ref: Cafelat Robot User Experience

Ken5
Supporter ★

#13: Post by Ken5 »

Yes, I ordered it late Wednesday and got it Friday before noon! I could not believe it!!!

Kinugrinders.de

The prices there include a European tax that is not charged if you are in the US. My Classic came out to about €301 with shipping included(€25.00), about $350.00 total. The Classic was cheaper from Germany, where as the Phoenix might end up more or the same.

They do things differently in Germany. You place the order and then you get an invoice via email. They prefer PayPal or wire transfer. Check fees for these services, I was able to keep my fees low.

Cafune.ca has the Phoenix in stock now. Unless you use a 10% discount code you will pay more from them. Someone here can get you the code. You can pay cc with them, not sure what international fees your cc charges.


Ken

Urupackers

#14: Post by Urupackers »

Halfrican2004 wrote:I was considering this grinder, or a Chestnut G1. Thoughts?
The Jx Pro is in other level than the Chestnut, the Jx Pro have 200 clicks, 12.5 microns each, that is perfect for espresso, it is in the level of the Kinu or the Comandante C40 with Red Clicks, and if you take in account the speed of grind, only the 1Zpresso Jx Pro and the Kinu grinders are in the same level.

DaveB

#15: Post by DaveB »

If you're into espresso pr0n, Robot will not disappoint!

Typical Flair Pro 2 shot:

Typical Robot shot:

FWIW, identical, meticulous puck prep always - irrespective of machine.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

User avatar
Jeff
Team HB

#16: Post by Jeff »

DaveB wrote:FWIW, identical, meticulous puck prep always - irrespective of machine.
Potentially worth a lot! Definitely interesting progression of extraction on the Flair. Was that a one-off, or a reasonably common occurrence?

Halfrican2004 (original poster)

#17: Post by Halfrican2004 (original poster) »

Ok, lots of good information!

Looking into the suggested grinders. Leaning towards the Zepresso JE-Plus and a Flair Pro 2.

DaveB

#18: Post by DaveB »

Jeff wrote:Definitely interesting progression of extraction on the Flair. Was that a one-off, or a reasonably common occurrence?
Pretty typical to get the "donut". On the Flair facebook page it was suggested that preheating the basket would help. In my case it made no discernible difference. It's worth noting that I NEVER preheat the Robot basket, and only occasionally preheat the portafilter.

Here's another recent Robot pr0n-shoot shot:
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

User avatar
Jeff
Team HB

#19: Post by Jeff »

This is a personal opinion from a Robot owner that has never owned a Flair, so take it as you may.

What I saw and wanted to confirm was that the edges of the puck in the Flair looked to extract quite a bit before the rest started to extract. This "donut" extraction is hard enough to prevent without the machine having a tendency to add to the challenge.

I trust that DaveB preps his baskets well so his videos are an eye-opener for me. I believe that the more uniform your extraction is, the better your espresso will be. Not "prettier", as I've had some really messy, but uniform shots that taste great. Ideally you want all of the good stuff from all of the coffee. If the extraction isn't uniform, then you need to run more water through the coffee to get all the good stuff from the "slow" spots. You either get more water in your espresso or, with some coffees, get things you don't like the flavor of as the "fast" spots "overextract".

Based on what looks like a reasonably fair comparison, unless budget or travel were compelling, with where I am in the hobby and the kinds of coffees I make espresso from, I'd go with the Robot for its seemingly more uniform extraction.

DaveB

#20: Post by DaveB »

I just checked my phone and found 10 other clips of my Flair extractions. In every case it was the same. However the donut appears during preinfusion and then fairly quickly fills in as it is brought up to pressure. The Flair tamper is a very tight fit in the basket (much tighter than Robot's), so I don't think it s a factor. In fact it's tight enough that I don't think a mutating tamp would be possible.

One notable difference between the Flair and Robot is that the Flair requires a MUCH coarser grind. For example, the Robot is using the exact same grind setting on the Monolith conical as the BDB, whereas the Flair requires a grind 3 1/2 full number ticks coarser. Not sure what this would translate to on other grinders - especially those with flat burrs.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet