billt wrote:I can't say that I like completely uncritical endorsement of a machine from people who, apparently, have no experience of any other machine.

Agreed. When I was starting out, an SBDU (Gaggia Classic, or Rancilio Silvia) was considered good for beginners. The next step up, a heat exchanger (likely with an e-61 or similar group head). Dual boilers were the holy grail, and PIDs were an aftermarket upgrade.

Times have changed. In current times, I consider my bare minimum recommendation to be: double boilers, PID controlled temperature; and optionally, active group heating. I wouldn't universally recommend a spring lever, a single-boiler heat exchanger, or any e-61 type group head. They're outside of the norm, and niche. Those whom own and enjoy those machines are well within their right to do so, but I'd caution to recommend without disclaimer.

Having been at this hobby for many years, I wanted to try something completely different. The Londinium is boutique, niche, and satisfies my taste. I do not think it's appropriate to universally recommend a Londinium, simply because that's what I own and am happy with.

I remember why I haven't been on this site since 2012 now.

But before I go, just for folks born in Birmingham... They should know that the industrial revolution began in England, specifically in the midlands of which Birmingham is by far the largest part and the centre of the revolution. So the home of industrial engineering is .... Birmingham.

BTW: I had a Rancilio Silvia for a week on approval, and I didn't, so it went back. I also have friends with experience of various different professional and amateur machines. But I was writing just a few lines, rather than volumes. I didn't expect to have to convey my entire history just so that a thick moron can avoid making ridiculous assertions.

But anyway, I was talking about the Londinium L1....

The subject of Birmingham was a sidetrack that BillT chose to make a big fool of himself over by running down his own town.

You forum fools who apparently have no idea what friendly conversational style is, can say what you want from now on, I won't be back.

The hostility here is unbelievable.

fivethirty wrote:I remember why I haven't been on this site since 2012 now...

I didn't follow this thread, but reading the posts by billt, you're right. Branding someone as a "fanboy", "hater", or similar broad label violates the site's Guidelines for productive online discussion ("Be respectful" and "Encourage positive, shared discourse"). There's an obvious difference between:

billt wrote:The Londinium fan club's out in force, I see!... Not heard the phrase "Brummagem screwdriver" for a hammer? Birmingham made lots of cheap, shoddy goods.

That's a dig at another member. Friendly jibbing is allowed (e.g., joking about sports fan loyalties in a friendly manner), but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

billt wrote:I don't hate the Londinium, which is no doubt a perfectly capable coffee maker, no better or worse than dozens of other competitive coffee makers. I can't say that I like completely uncritical endorsement of a machine from people who, apparently, have no experience of any other machine.

That's closer to reasonable, but again there's still a dig, despite the attempt to qualify it with "apparently".

fivethirty wrote:You forum fools who apparently have no idea what friendly conversational style is, can say what you want from now on, I won't be back.

Mistakes happen. That's what the "Report a post" button is for. Team HB monitors reports closely, which is how I was alerted to this thread. I hope you'll give HB another chance.

Thank you everyone for all the extremely useful comments. It definitely makes things both a bit easier and harder but at least I'm on the right path. I can see that my research is just beginning.

I'm actually looking at attending the coffee expo in Seattle next month as a means to get some hands on with these machines and see what's new and upcoming. So I've got a few weeks before I make the final plunge but it's definitely going to happen. I'll ahare what I find.

Thanks again everyone, appreciate it!

If you're going to be In Seattle, I'd recommend scheduling a demo of the Linea Mini with Dave from La Marzocco Home. You'll get a chance to get hands on with the Mini and Dave will answer all of your questions. It's a great opportunity to get one-on-one with the machine and an expert from LM. You can schedule demos from the LM Home web site.