Espresso machines with stainless steel boilers? - Page 3

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
h3yn0w
Posts: 476
Joined: 13 years ago

#21: Post by h3yn0w »

DeGaulle wrote:From what I've heard, Bezzera have switched from copper to stainless steel boilers for their newest models. These would be HX machines. I've never experienced an off-taste with my machine, but if you insist on stainless, they are not nearly as expensive as a LM (but not the cheapest either).
In an HX machine you'll want the heat exchanger to be copper due to its thermal properties. However, since the brew water comes from the heat exchanger, where it spends very little time, There really isn't much chance for the material to influence the taste.

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keno
Posts: 1409
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#22: Post by keno »

It might be the grouphead and portafilters more than the boilers. E61 groupheads and most portafilters are brass and over time the chrome plating wears off and the material holds coffee oils and residue much more than a material like stainless. La Marzocco use stainless for the group and portafilters and I do think this partly contributes to the improved flavor profile.

But if you are very fastidious with your cleaning regimen it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

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Don Task
Posts: 334
Joined: 8 years ago

#23: Post by Don Task »

olferre wrote: [snip]
So i'm looking for tips about all the espresso machines that would have stainless steel boilers and would cost less than a Marzocco!
Profitec Pro 500
Profitec Pro 700
Both have stainless boilers... along with some of the other candidates already mentioned.
olferre wrote: [snip]
i had no idea someone had ever written about it and i don't know who's David Schomer :(
David, is founder and owner of Espresso Vivace. Putting it mildly, he's an espresso connoisseur. He's even been called a Coffee Prophet in the press. The Financial Times' restaurant columnist considers Vivace the finest coffee bar in the United States, as do dozens of baristas and coffee-bar owners who have flown from as far away as Australia and the United Arab Emirates to learn about coffee from David Schomer.

Among other things coffee, he's also a published author. > Espresso Coffee: Professional Techniques ISBN 1-59404-031-1

Don Task
Krups, then Silvia, then Livia 90, then a Techno! Does it ever end? [sigh]

malling
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#24: Post by malling »

Shife wrote:I've had the cover off my M58. I know what the boilers look like. Since they are plated with nickel, I'm not going to make a claim that I know what he base material is. I'm aware that vendor websites often have errors. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I have found nothing to substantiate the claim that Quickmill is using brass or bronze. I have found several references to copper boilers, including on Quickmill's website. Again, I'm not looking to argue, but I am interested in something more than internet opinion or assumptions.
The Boilers are coated with T.E.A which is basically the same as Reveco tech used on Faemas machines.

Quickmill does not refer to copper on their official site, in fact Quickmill does not even mention the material used. And haven't done so ever since I bought my machine.

References isn't worth anything if it is not backed up by evidence or in this case actually looking inside the machine.

There are a noticeable color difference between the the two materials, look it up if you don't know the difference, and one is harder then the other and makes different resonance if you knock on it. I checked the two boilers and it for sure ain't copper used for the brew boiler. Something Bella Barista in GB also quite clearly point out.

The information you have found is most likely for the hx version - the standard Vetrano that version uses a copper boiler coated with T.E.A

Shife
Posts: 552
Joined: 9 years ago

#25: Post by Shife replying to malling »

I know you like to be the authoritative expert on the V2B, but you've offered nothing to substantiate your opinion. I know what TEA and Ruveko is. It's a trade name for a nickel plating process. There is nothing mysterious about nickel plate. I own one of these machines. I know what the boilers look like. I also know that looking at a nickel plated piece of metal and tapping on it means zilch. I suppose I could disassemble my machine, take a boiler in to work, and check it on the hardness gauge, but that seems a bit extreme. I'm also not interested in removing any of the nickel plate to get a better look at what the substrate is. I am interested in finding some sort of legitimate information if available.

I'm in manufacturing. I work with metals all day long. Making assumptions doesn't fly with me. If you think you can look at a round of metal and tell if it's D2 or Flexor-M, then we'd love to employ you. Quickmill makes several references to copper boilers on its product pages. They do not mention any other materials. Again, I'm not looking to argue and I really don't care what the material is, but I'd like to see something more substantial than opinion when making a factual statement.

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bluesman
Posts: 1594
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#26: Post by bluesman »

malling wrote:Quickmill does not refer to copper on their official site
Yes they do. Here's a screen shot taken from their website 3 minutes ago:



I'm with Eric - the facts are neither hard to find nor ambiguous. We'd all appreciate it if you'd try to verify the truth and accuracy of information you present as being beyond question. It took me about 15 seconds to find this - we all deserve at least that much effort before being told we're wrong.

Bill33525
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#27: Post by Bill33525 »

Since I own a V2B, was a little bit interested in the construction myself.
Chris's Coffee: https://www.chriscoffee.com/Vetrano-2B- ... -a-evo.htm
Under the Features section says "Dual Copper Boilers".
Mackenzie says this is correct. So looks like Plated Copper.

My machine makes great Espresso so I'm okay with the plated low lead Copper boilers.

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turbo290
Posts: 115
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#28: Post by turbo290 »

TomC wrote:The very last thing I'd concern myself in regards to taste of an espresso is what the boilers are made of. There are so many things on order of magnitude more important. Flush the machine if your water tastes funny and stick to what matters.
This to me sums it up. I was hoping to see a discussion of the pros and cons of different materials.

OldNuc
Posts: 2973
Joined: 10 years ago

#29: Post by OldNuc »

Generally speaking there is no lead in copper and boilers are usually silver braised which is also lead free. Copper has been the go-to metal for low pressure boilers for a very long time.

malling
Posts: 2900
Joined: 13 years ago

#30: Post by malling »

Shife wrote:I know you like to be the authoritative expert on the V2B, but you've offered nothing to substantiate your opinion. I know what TEA and Ruveko is. It's a trade name for a nickel plating process. There is nothing mysterious about nickel plate. I own one of these machines. I know what the boilers look like. I also know that looking at a nickel plated piece of metal and tapping on it means zilch. I suppose I could disassemble my machine, take a boiler in to work, and check it on the hardness gauge, but that seems a bit extreme. I'm also not interested in removing any of the nickel plate to get a better look at what the substrate is. I am interested in finding some sort of legitimate information if available.

I'm in manufacturing. I work with metals all day long. Making assumptions doesn't fly with me. If you think you can look at a round of metal and tell if it's D2 or Flexor-M, then we'd love to employ you. Quickmill makes several references to copper boilers on its product pages. They do not mention any other materials. Again, I'm not looking to argue and I really don't care what the material is, but I'd like to see something more substantial than opinion when making a factual statement.
The plating of the boilers is a relatively new procedure, that found its way in 2014, the first models did not have that coating, so back then you did not have to remove the coating

Of course you can't say down to detail what quality, type etc. by just looking at it. That is quite obviously.

Now you are the one making assumptions, it means absolutely zip what kind of material they use on other models, it is entirely irrelevant. ECM also use different materials for different models it is far from uncommon.

Bluesmen:
linking to an entirely different hx model as evidence for ones assumption is just ridicules and hard to take seriously. It really doesn't matter what They use on other models. In The V2B version Quickmill dos not inform of the materials used. You only find that information on vendor sites in Europe they generally don't say in USA however they do, and Bella Barista a english Vendor and one of the most reliable and who are getting their machines tested by someone not within own ranks state that the brew is brass.

First off all very few espresso machine manufactures make their own boilers, they get them from one of their many suppliers, the same is the case with the tubes etc. so it won't be hard for them to use different type of boilers with different type of materials as they are not manufacturing them. This is also the reason why it makes zero sense to mention what quickmill use on different models that first of all is not DB but hx, those using an entirely different boiler. Besides no one have ever stated that the steam boiler is anything but Copper. But it is not uncommon that brew boilers are made of brass, this is used by both Dalla Corte, Spaziale among others.

It is far from uncommon to find the exact same boiler a crosse allot of different brands.

Again I would in general not trust what vendors say or state as these are very often mistaken.