Espresso machines with stainless steel boilers? - Page 2

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
DeGaulle

Postby DeGaulle » Feb 07, 2016, 5:31 pm

From what I've heard, Bezzera have switched from copper to stainless steel boilers for their newest models. These would be HX machines. I've never experienced an off-taste with my machine, but if you insist on stainless, they are not nearly as expensive as a LM (but not the cheapest either).
Bert

boost

Postby boost » Feb 07, 2016, 5:37 pm

Nuova Simonelli also touts stainless as one of their selling points. David Schomer claims that brass does impart certain taste in the water.

"What is it about the T3 that gives it this advantage?
Nuova Simonelli plated the necessary surfaces in stainless steel, because brass can make the coffee taste rancid. With that, and the temperature stability, we got the lovely varietal flavors stacked up like trout in a stream, plus sweetness."

http://www.nuovadistribution.com/images ... 0Ideas.pdf

However I don't think that's the only reason they go stainless, I think there is a certain regulation push to move away from brass and copper due to lead content on it, however insignificant that is.

olferre

Postby olferre » Feb 07, 2016, 6:54 pm

thanks everybody for the references. It really helps!

i should find something to make an happy couple even happier :)

and i guarantee you that there is a huge difference for me so please believe me there. it's a matter of respect. i'm very surprised that a member of the forum calls me delusional and full of sh** just because he couldn't taste it himself.
i don't see why i would made that up and end up spending days looking for ways to avoid it!

i had no idea someone had ever written about it and i don't know who's David Schomer :(
I just talked about it a lot through the years and many other people agreed that they have the same experience. Especially women (i remind you that women have an higher ability to smell and taste things), non smokers and men when they have a job in the coffee industry.

And that's not the first thing i have thought about. au contraire, it's the last one. But the 3 other "M" (i hope that makes sense in english) are good. So it had to be the 4th one.
and again the same day, with the same grinder, coffee and "hand" i get something really really good with a presso (remember how easy it is to carry a presso everywhere to compare and make blind tests) and, with other machines (even automatic or semi automatic that costed a fortune) i get something that looks the same, same crema, same temperature, same coffee cup (at the proper temperature itself) BUT that annoying taste.

Some people manage to drink Perrier from a can without finding it disgusting. i can't.

ok i don't know about you but here it's really late at night. good night/day everybody depending on where you are.

malling

Postby malling » Feb 08, 2016, 5:58 am

I think we need to remember that these machines for the overwhelming part uses copper tubes and brass brewheads so the brew water will no matter the material of the boiler get in contact with copper on its way too the brewhead. Is the brewhead set up with a thermosyphon loop then the water will be constantly circling through these copper tubes and brass brewhead too and from the boiler/hx. In a low flow environment this can go on for hours!

There can be allot of reasons why coffee tastes rancid, blaming the materials used for a boiler is not the most likely culprit.

And parameters changes when you shift from one machine too the other, so you'll need to change those.

spearfish25

Postby spearfish25 » Feb 08, 2016, 7:07 am

I thought the whole draw of SS boilers was less propensity for scaling.
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Alex
Home-Barista.com makes me want to buy expensive stuff.

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bluesman

Postby bluesman » Feb 08, 2016, 9:28 am

malling wrote:Quickmill, La Spaziale and Dalla Corte are some of the very few who uses brass for brewboiler

There are more than that, e.g. (off the top of my head) Lelit and Rancilio use brass boilers (at least in the Anna and Silvia, respectively). And being SB machines, all the water that ends up in your coffee comes through brass.

Shife

Postby Shife » Feb 08, 2016, 10:28 am

malling wrote:I'm pretty sure your referring to Copper rather then Brass, brass dos not result in off tastes like Copper. Besides the chances that you have been served a coffee drink from a machine with brass boiler is slim, as not many manufacturers uses brass. It is either copper or stainless steel.

Quickmill, La Spaziale and Dalla Corte are some of the very few who uses brass for brewboiler

I have been unable to find anything that substantiates the claim that Quickmill is using brass for their boilers. Their own marketing states copper. All of their vendors say the boilers are copper. I am not saying this to argue, but I am somewhat fuzzy on where this claim is coming from.

malling

Postby malling » replying to Shife » Feb 08, 2016, 3:30 pm

Quickmill has never informed about the material used for the boilers on their official site brochure etc. it has only ever stated the volume and in the two latest additions that the boilers where coated and that is it!

The information one can find about material used for the boilers is something invented by the vendors, so this is an information that has been added on later in their own description and brochure of the machine, it is important to point out that such information often is flawed. For example it is not uncommon to find wrong descriptions of the volume ;)

However the review of the machine made by Bella Barista clearly state brass, today the vast majority of those changes have found its way to the regular V2B and later Evo version.

Need to point out that I looked inside a V2B and the brew where not copper, one can clearly see the difference between the two.

SJM

Postby SJM » Feb 08, 2016, 3:38 pm

If you are going to look for a Gaggia Classic, however, try to find one before they incorporated the stainless steel boiler. It is a terrible downgrade of the original quite stellar Classic. I'm not sure that they are selling the stainless steel boiler Classics in the USA; certainly they are on the other side of the pond.

Shife

Postby Shife » Feb 08, 2016, 7:21 pm

malling wrote:Quickmill has never informed about the material used for the boilers on their official site brochure etc. it has only ever stated the volume and in the two latest additions that the boilers where coated and that is it!

The information one can find about material used for the boilers is something invented by the vendors, so this is an information that has been added on later in their own description and brochure of the machine, it is important to point out that such information often is flawed. For example it is not uncommon to find wrong descriptions of the volume ;)

However the review of the machine made by Bella Barista clearly state brass, today the vast majority of those changes have found its way to the regular V2B and later Evo version.

Need to point out that I looked inside a V2B and the brew where not copper, one can clearly see the difference between the two.

I've had the cover off my M58. I know what the boilers look like. Since they are plated with nickel, I'm not going to make a claim that I know what he base material is. I'm aware that vendor websites often have errors. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I have found nothing to substantiate the claim that Quickmill is using brass or bronze. I have found several references to copper boilers, including on Quickmill's website. Again, I'm not looking to argue, but I am interested in something more than internet opinion or assumptions.