Espresso Machine Advice-Budget $4K - Page 2

#11: Post by **Giampiero** » March 13th, 2023, 12:53 am

Do you have some sellers in your area, why don't you make a search, select some models and then try to find the way to ask for further?
Our suggestions are based on our direct experiences and personal necessities, not yours

#12: Post by **philib97** » March 13th, 2023, 2:53 pm

I agree with the previous comments. Though I will hazard a specific recommendation:

Lelit Bianca - plumbable, double boiler, easy enough to use it out of the box with endless opportunity for further exploration. Full disclosure - I have just purchased one (upgrade from a single boiler, E61), but have not started using it yet.

With your budget, you would still have money for a good grinder.

#13: Post by **Martin** » March 13th, 2023, 3:29 pm

Consider multiple aspects of plumbing in--including losing some options for later moving machine. Consider installation and accessibility for water quality/filtration. Past preferences for plumbing-in may have shifted in recent years: example, my Lelit Bianca (plumable) has super accessible reservoir, reliable empty warning, and rotary pump.

$4k is lots of money. But small compared to a house/kitchen build. If zero flexibility, consider shaving some $ off budget for other appliances. You may wonder why you overpaid for that 6 burner stove with red knobs instead of (overpaying) for a machine with a profiling lever.

You want a sink really close and don't want to compete with other food preparers for space when you just want to quickly rinse a basket.

Of course, you will want to roast your own. Plan for a pleasant location for roasting (not in garage under the stairwell).

Have fun.

#14: Post by **JeffNYC** » March 13th, 2023, 5:52 pm

I've had my La Spaziale Dream T (tank version) for about 6 weeks and it rocks. I like the volumetric feature better than I thought. I programmed the single espresso as a 2:1 ratio (15 grams coffee to 30 grams out), the double button as a lungo 4:1 (60 grams out), and the hot water for 60 ml (for heating cups or Americanos). I have three profiles set up based on roast level: light, medium, and dark (206, 201, 196 respectively). You do have to program volumes for each profile, so a bit repetitive to set up. It has a shot timer (with preinfusion chamber you need to back out the time from first extraction), but I do like my scale better. Also shot counter (to monitor cleaning cycle that you can reset), filter counter (in gallons to track need to replace water softener insert), and back wash cycle (hit manual button and wait for preferred number of back wash cycles to run). Can program start time to heat up by day (believe several times per day, I only do the morning), and lights under the machine that can be programmed (on, on when running, or off). Also makes great espresso...

I don't do milk drinks too often, but steaming is impressive. You have to work fast!

There is a bit of plastic that I was concerned when buying but was pleasantly surprised. The drip tray is a bit plasticy, but the sides look very nice. There is a sparkle finish to the plastic components which looks like pearl finish for cars (the Dream models anyway). My only real gripe is the distance from the spout to cup is very short. I need to tilt my Gibraltar glass to remove. The boiler gauges are hard to read where they are positioned but I only check periodically if pulling too fast or too slow.

I highly recommend this if you like the appearance (I do, but can understand others want a lot of shiny steel). At least with my limited experience with this machine.

#15: Post by **poison** » March 14th, 2023, 12:34 am

$4k? Micra or Synchronika, or the wild card lever machine. Design your kitchen around a Nurri, no one will ever notice you don't have a Viking stove.

#16: Post by **LightZone** » March 14th, 2023, 8:05 am

Exactly, Bezzera Duo DE with flow control. WLL has the machine with OEM flow control preinstalled

March 14th, 2023, 2:19 pm

Can you share a link? I see that MN comes with E61 head that gives an option of flow control, while DE comes with proprietary volumetric grouphead and no traditional flow-control.

#18: Post by **philosli** » March 15th, 2023, 6:29 pm

ACS is taking preorder of their Vostok lever 1 group. It might fit the bill. It's a double boiler lever machine with 3 independent PID controllers to maintain boiler and group head temperature. The price range may be within your budget even with shipping included. Its shot volume can be programmatically controlled by time or volume (based on group head pressure), or simply manually adjusted. Because of the nature of a spring lever group head design, stop a shot at certain brewing pressure gives you the volume control, as the pressure exerted by the spring-driven piston correlates very closely to the the amount of the displaced water in the group chamber.

I almost ordered a Vostok but it's too big for my kitchen. I do have a certain counter spot to accommodate it, but then it will be too dominant in the kitchen. So I went for its smaller brother Evo Leva.

#19: Post by **LightZone** » March 16th, 2023, 2:58 am

TLN wrote:Can you share a link? I see that MN comes with E61 head that gives an option of flow control, while DE comes with proprietary volumetric grouphead and no traditional flow-control.

Sorry, I miss spoke. I meant to say the Duo MN with OEM flow control. The DE uses the Bezzera group not an E61.

#20: Post by **Primacog** » March 16th, 2023, 9:00 pm

philosli wrote:ACS is taking preorder of their Vostok lever 1 group. It might fit the bill. It's a double boiler lever machine with 3 independent PID controllers to maintain boiler and group head temperature. The price range may be within your budget even with shipping included. Its shot volume can be programmatically controlled by time or volume (based on group head pressure), or simply manually adjusted. Because of the nature of a spring lever group head design, stop a shot at certain brewing pressure gives you the volume control, as the pressure exerted by the spring-driven piston correlates very closely to the the amount of the displaced water in the group chamber.

I almost ordered a Vostok but it's too big for my kitchen. I do have a certain counter spot to accommodate it, but then it will be too dominant in the kitchen. So I went for its smaller brother Evo Leva.

I agree that a spring lever is a great upgrade path and the new generation of hybrid levers (the Vesuvius evo, the Nurri L-type SA Leva and the Vostok) give precise temperature and pressure control that traditional levers do mot have and match almost all of the capabilities of such high priced ultra machines like the LEVA X. Within the set budget of 4k, the Vesuvius Evo Leva would seem to be a great option - while I have not tried it out, it has been on the market for a couple of years and there are many owners of the evo who are pleased with it and it is due to be upgraded with nhe capabilities of the Vostok soon and is considerably smaller than the Vostok. For the Vostok and the vesuvius evo, you would need to comfortable with maintaining the machine yourself without dealer support as they are sold direct from manufacturer like the Londinium machines but i believe both fit within the OP budget.