Hello, I'm newbie when it comes to espresso machines. Looking for first grinder + espresso machine combo as birthday present for wife.

1) Grinder: Found Eureka Migron classico as best bang for buck.

2) Why not E61? MCAL and LGB already stretches my budget. From what i read at forum lever should be better then entry level E61.

4) I will be making milk coffee variations

5) Considering only new equipment.

6) MCAL - from what i found spring lever is easier to use, high quality components

7) LGB - didn't found much information about it. What are differences with professional? How is components quality compared to MCAL. La pavoni should have more control with brewing process then MCAL?

MCAL vs LGB which one would You choose and why?

A lot depends on how you think your wife would like to use the machine, how much she'd like to learn a certain ritual and use time to learn preparation and other parts of the process. Making good coffee really is just process of small, sometimes for some slightly ridiculous looking, tasks that have to be done. One of my friends jokingly called my process "the art of making coffee". Not completely sure yet if I should take it as a compliments.

With that I also say that I am quite new to home espresso myself.

Grothmog wrote: 1) Grinder: Found Eureka Migron classico as best bang for buck.

Probably an OK grinder to start with, do not know it myself. I would just like to note that many hand grinders might be better grind quality wise, cost around the same, take less space, and are more silent.

Of course it depends then, for example how many coffees per day, or per session, would be made? I do usually 2-3 per session, sometimes more. It does get a bit laborious but I am OK with it. I like the manuality of it.

Examples of hand grinders: Lido E (or Lido ET), Kinu M47 Phoenix. There are others but the latter is easy to order from Germany.

Grothmog wrote:2) Why not E61? MCAL and LGB already stretches my budget. From what i read at forum lever should be better then entry level E61

Not sure if necessarily better. Different, and maybe more rewarding, depending on the personality of the user. I definitely have always fancied the idea of lever machines, and do love my La Pavoni Professional. You do, IMHO, get a feeling of having more control.

Simple lever machines are probably also simpler to service than modern pump machines. That's of course only my impression.

In "E61 machines" you would also have many many choises. Single boiler and HX mainly for entry level, and yes most likely you would at least be buying more longevity with a small lever machine, than a low cost pump machine. Again, my impression.

Grothmog wrote: 4) I will be making milk coffee variations

Avoid single boiler pump machines then. A fairly OK HX would do. La Pavoni and MCAL can both do milk based drinks quite well, even if at least with Pavoni you might want to change the steam wand tip for example to a 1-hole tip.

Also, where did number 3 go?

Grothmog wrote:6) MCAL - from what i found spring lever is easier to use, high quality components

I'm not convinced it's easier to use. Pulling down the Pavoni lever is not that hard. The "ease" or "difficulty" comes more from temperature control and other variables. I personally have found Pavoni quite forgiving a machine really. Just make sure to have:

- Boiler pressure gauge
- Group head thermometer

Brew temperature is just incredibly important, and I see many getting this wrong and then being frustrated. This is true with MCAL also. Make sure to have these two from the beginning.

From what I've seen, you'd have the same issues with MCAL, and I suppose it is easier to find other Pavoni users and generally more help over in the Internets for Pavoni. Again, I might be wrong, just my impression.

Grothmog wrote: 7) LGB - didn't found much information about it. What are differences with professional? How is components quality compared to MCAL. La pavoni should have more control with brewing process then MCAL?

The difference between Pro and LGB is mainly aesthetic. They both have pretty much the same parts, apart from the drip tray of which I actually don't know how it's made eon LGB but I suppose it's all metallic. Same machine all in all. For me not worth the extra cost. But if you value the aesthetic then maybe yes.

You might have some more control with Pavoni but I don't think that's really the thing. Frankly I don't know what to say here. I myself wanted a direct lever.

Hopefully someone more familiar with both machines will chime in about the real differences.

Grothmog wrote: MCAL vs LGB which one would You choose and why?

I personally would still choose La Pavoni, and the professional model. LGB if the looks are a thing.

Both, MCAL and Pavoni, are great machines as far as small levers go.

Cheers,

A lot depends on how you think your wife would like to use the machine, how much she'd like to learn a certain ritual and use time to learn preparation and other parts of the process.

It's hardest question to answer, since we never owned espresso machine before. Long time ago my wife had semi-auto machine (very budget one - amica) and was happy with hand preparation of things like milk steaming, grinding coffee etc. That's why i know I can safely skip fully automatic machines. As for me I'm not big fan of drinking coffee,

Probably an OK grinder to start with, do not know it myself. I would just like to note that many hand grinders might be better grind quality wise, cost around the same, take less space, and are more silent.

Of course it depends then, for example how many coffees per day, or per session, would be made? I do usually 2-3 per session, sometimes more. It does get a bit laborious but I am OK with it. I like the manuality of it.

It will be like 1-2 per session. Never considered hand grinder before, I will look into it.

Avoid single boiler pump machines then. A fairly OK HX would do.

From what i checked at local stores HX is outside my price range. Going for HX wpould mean either skipping grinder purchase or saving a bit more and waiting for christmas with present.

The difference between Pro and LGB is mainly aesthetic.

I thought there was more to it then just looks. Then no reason to go for LGB, Pro will suffice.

Grothmog wrote: I thought there was more to it then just looks. Then no reason to go for LGB, Pro will suffice.

No difference that I know of, except for the naked portafilter.

A new Elektra Microcasa a Leva has far better build quality than a new La Pavoni. To my thinking it is worth the extra cost. The all chrome Microcasa a Leva will be more durable than other versions. Newer La Pavonis have been styled to look like the Elektra, but I would go with the original (Elektra).

Based on videos i found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuIOlsdDg_o $300 vs. $3,000 Espresso Machine Challenge
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXeTs_lTts $200 vs. $1,200 Espresso Grinder Challenge

Does it mean that I'm far better with reverting espresso machine/grinder budget and going with Gaggia classic and dumping all money on grinder for espresso quality? Does it really gives bigger difference then good quality coffee machine and cheaper grinder?

I advise you to buy the Eureka Specialita instead of classic. A bit more expensive but larger burrs, much more silent operation and digital timers. It is really worth the extra. I had both and much preferred the Specialita.

I prefer the Elektra over Pavoni. It has far better steaming capacity, stands more stable (less prone to tip over) and better build quality. When you change the boiler to group gasket for a Ponte Vecchio Export one it is pretty stable temperature wise. That PV seal has a perfect fit and is cheap. There is a topic on this forum about this easy mod from Karl Schneider. I do not like the eagle on top of the Mcal. I changed it for the small blue murano glas/globe from Elektra. Looks way better in my opinion. Personal opinion of course. Only buy the chrome version, the copper plated two colour machines are hard to keep clean and the plating is not that good. At least used to be. No need to change the steam tip, just buy a naked PF and a group temperature strip.

On the other hand a Millenium Pavoni has also pretty good temp control compared to the older group. You could buy the normal Pro version and retrofit it with Gabor's pressure kit and naked PF. Change the stock steam tip for a single hole one and buy an IMS competition basket and group temperature strip. You end up with a great machine! Just for the sake of experimenting this might be the better option.

Yes the millennium pro pavoni is quite stable indeed. Out of the box it keeps a stable temperature good for lighter roasts. A bit hot for dark roast. I have one. YMMV.

Single hole tip for steaming is a must, real easy to make yourself: brass M6 dome nut, 1.5mm hole, that's it.

Eureka Specialita is probably a good recommendation.

As for the question above: yes to a certain degree you should go grinder first. But do not get a total crap of a machine. That can also kill the experience.

Many on this forum, and maybe more those who say "invest in grinder first, machine second" have thousands and then thousands of dollars invested in the gear. As in grinders of 3000+ dollars and machines of same caliber.

Still, they're not wrong.