Electric grinder equivalent to Kinu M47 for espresso?

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ExpressSo

#1: Post by ExpressSo »

I was wondering if anyone with experience with a m47 and a variety of electric grinders could comment on what electric grinders would give the same quality grind as a m47 and what electric grinders would be even better than the m47 for espresso?

I'm asking because I am planning on getting a flair and I feel like I will eventually tire of grinding manually while dialing in and would eventually upgrade to an electric grinder when I have the money. At the same time I do not want to sacrifice performance when upgrading to an electric. Forgive me if this question has been asked before, I did try looking but maybe I didn't use the right keywords.

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Jeff
Team HB

#2: Post by Jeff »

Welcome!

What is your price range?

How many shots do you usually make in a day?

What style of espresso do you like (classic or light-roast)?

What flavor aspects do you like in your espresso?

ExpressSo (original poster)

#3: Post by ExpressSo (original poster) »

Thanks Jeff!

Price range honestly unsure. I read somewhere on here someone said around 1k for an equivalent electric to the kinu? But I haven't really thought about a price range yet because I don't know the minimum for what I am asking for... So I guess it would be whatever the starting price point 2nd hand is.

I make zero shots a day haha. I usually grab a drink at my local coffee shop 2-3 days a week. When I used to work at a coffee shop I would drink 1-3 shots a day... Once I get an espresso maker I would ideally only drink 1 shot a day(we will see how that goes :D), 2 or 3 days a week before work. I would like to buy some nice beans every now and then and spend some time on my days off dialing it in as well as I can for funsies.

I've never heard of classic as a style. Is that just dark roast? The only beans that I had access to were pretty much all medium roasts. I actually tried pulling shots on a light roast yirgacheffe thinking it was the espresso yirgacheffe bag when I first got into espresso at my old job and it was a catastrophe. The machine we had didn't have a pid so I guess you couldn't really pull light roasts on it from what I've read on here you need 204-205 degrees for it? Would love to dive into that once I get a flair if it's even possible with a flair.

I'm not really well versed in coffee profiling...as I don't have the most refined palate so I have difficulty describing details in coffee flavor. The best shots I've ever pulled were single origins... One by Verve which tasted like lemongrass. Another by Birdrock coffee which tasted like jasmine. The greatest shot I've ever had was when a regular at my job came in with a bag of coffee he said he brought back from his trip... I threw a dose into the ek43 and pulled a shot outta the linea and my god... Sweeter than the sweetest strawberry anyone has ever tasted. I would say it was THE godshot of godshots but I haven't tried nearly enough coffee to say that. I do enjoy a really good medium blend though don't get me wrong.

So yeah I guess I would say I really enjoy single origins of those nature :D
Realistically though.... I guess I would want an electric grinder that would be able to give me the best chance of making those kinds of extractions from single origins every now and then at the lowest starting price point. Hopefully that doesn't mean I need to spend 3k on an espresso grinder. :cry:

bas

#4: Post by bas »

1 shot a day 2-3 days a week...keep your Kinu M47 hand grinder!

with so few shots an electric grinder makes no sense. besides you nee to spend a lot of money as your are 'needing' a single dose grinder or purge...

if you 'want' a grinder with motor a Niche Zero comes to my mind...

to be honest I do not consider Niche grind quality superior to a good hand grinder like M47.

Eureka XL with single dose hopper does a good job as well.

staymesso

#5: Post by staymesso »

For a similar price the Option-O lagom mini or the SPTK-38G would likely be comparable (both conical). They will be a bit different due to burrs but that could be a good thing. The Obsydian burrs on the Lagom are probably most comparable to the Kinu.

Are you ever going to do Pour over? If so, the Kinu is fine to good but not great.

The thing about this question is that purely for in-cup results, the Kinu CAN be comparable to $1k grinders. It can also be comparable to electric grinders of almost the same price. It all comes down to workflow, use, coffee type, etc

bas

#6: Post by bas » replying to staymesso »

What is the problem of grinding for 2-3 shots a week by hand? The Kinu grinds pretty fast. I doubt the Lagom mini is any quicker. And that motor is not very powerful so stalling might be a problem with lighter roasts. At least that is what I heard. I consider the Lagom mini more a filter grinder. Or am I wrong?

BodieZoffa

#7: Post by BodieZoffa » replying to bas »

Totally agree as I average 6-7 each morning manually with a tiny beast...

staymesso

#8: Post by staymesso »

bas wrote:What is the problem of grinding for 2-3 shots a week by hand? The Kinu grinds pretty fast. I doubt the Lagom mini is any quicker. And that motor is not very powerful so stalling might be a problem with lighter roasts. At least that is what I heard. I consider the Lagom mini more a filter grinder. Or am I wrong?
Nothing is "wrong" with it. I had a Phoenix and it ground pretty fast. I sold it for a SSP MP DF64 mostly because of the style of espresso I like and partly because even still it took some time and effort that I could've spent prepping my basket, weighing another dose, doing a pour over, or cleaning up from my last shot. Granted, most of these wouldn't be an issue if you grind once a day, but I found myself making shots for multiple people or making two shots a day for myself.

The Kinu is a perfectly capable grinder for espresso don't get me wrong, but for some and electric grinder is worth it not because it necessarily grinds faster but because it's hands-free.

The Mini is marketed for both filter and espresso now as you can only get the 48mm burrs. As far as I can tell the stalling issues have stopped and was a limited lot issue.

The obsydian burrs are more geared toward classic espresso while the moonshine are more like the Comandante burrs and will perform better for filter and light-medium espresso. Was just throwing it out there as it is similar price to Kinu classic with the upside for great filter performance if OP thinks they may want to move to that

bas

#9: Post by bas »

I believe I did not read the first post good enough: I assumed ExpressoSo was having a Kinu M47 already! Hence my remark that with only 2-3 shots a week an electric grinder makes little sense.

Good to hear the stalling issues are resolved and were only a first batch problem.

The DF64 is a good choice as well!

The new Baratza Vario perhaps too. Should be more reliable than previous versions, not much retention and usable for filter too.

Many options.

User avatar
Jeff
Team HB

#10: Post by Jeff »

Thanks for the description of your espresso experience. It sounds like you've already enjoyed some of the characteristics of light-roast espresso. For me, "classic espresso" is focused on "chocolate and nuts" flavors (often from the roast) and heavy body. I'd weigh the advice of anyone who adheres solely to that style very lightly. I'd also consider those that insist that flat burrs are necessary for light-roast espresso may just be parroting what they've read elsewhere, rather than speaking from direct experience.

My suggestions are based on puling primarily medium-light and light roasts as espresso. I've pulled both Verve and Bird Rock in the past, and recall them as medium or medium-light roasts. Roasters like Passenger, Tim Wendelboe, Coffee Collective, and La Cabra generally fall into what I consider light. Roasters that I would consider "ultra-light" are not commonly discussed on H-B. Most of my current grinders are on my profile.

Option-O Lagom Mini -- $428 delivered to US

I have had one of these with the Moonshine burrs for a couple weeks now. I'm enjoying the flavor profile of these burrs, with good definition of flavors. The workflow is smooth, clean and enjoyable. It has a very small footprint, not much larger than a 1ZPresso JX-Pro or K-Plus.

The people with Minis whose taste preferences I weigh heavily all enjoy light-roast espresso and all purchased only or prefer the Moonshine burrs. There is a feeling among those that have tried both, maybe real, maybe not, that the Obsydian burrs are a tiny bit more "classic" in their presentation.

Some of the early units had stalling problems with ultra-light beans where it would stop for a second and then continue. A new power supply apparently has resolved that issue. Similarly, there have been some gear-train failures with early models among users of light-roast espresso, which Option-O promptly addressed and, from what I understand, has made changes in the gear train as a result.

From the FAQ:

Duty cycle: <90s (1.5 min) grind time per cycle, with a minimum rest time of 90s (1.5 min) in between cycles, for no more than 4 shots within a 10 minute period. Rest for at least 30 minutes once total cumulated grinding time has exceeded 6 minutes.

Right now, I really enjoy the Mini. I was willing to bet my own money that it would hold up to my usage pattern of usually two shots a day of light or ultra-light espresso.

Niche Zero -- $680 delivered to US

Tilting a grinder and adding a puffer doesn't make a good, single-dosing grinder. The Niche Zero set the standard for single-dose workflow. The thing is just a pleasure to work with, nothing fancy to get low exchange (under 0.3 g), easy to get under 0.1 g. Grind adjustments are easy, smooth, and repeatable. The Kony burrs are a good espresso burr set and can be used for light-roast espresso, despite the nay-sayers.

While not a shop grinder, I'd be more comfortable pulling a half-dozen shots in a row with the Niche Zero than I would be with the Lagom Mini.

64 mm SSP burrs -- $650 to $1,800, depending on grinder

Despite people's parroted belief that "flat burrs are better", not all flat burrs are the same. The burrs that are "interesting" for light-roast espresso are generally SSP-made, and then not all of them. The burrs in the grinders from the classic manufacturers seem to be unchanged and are every bit as boring as they were in the early 2000s or before. The two burr sets of interest to me, that are available today are the 64 "Multi-purpose" and the 64 "Cast sweet, version 2". Option-O is said to be working with SSP on another "cast" burr. (As if "flat is better" wasn't enough, now we've got "flat and cast is better".)

The two platforms that I can suggest right now are the DF64 and the Lagom P64. With SSP burrs, those run around $650 and $1,800, respectively.

The P64 has excellent usability and performance, in the same class as the Niche Zero. It is basically ready to go right out of the box. Regrettably Option-O chose to accept an exclusive deal with Prima in the US which puts even ordering a P64 more than a year out, at a premium price over other regions.

The DF64 needs a set of relatively simple mods that are available 3D printed and can be installed with a Philips screwdriver and some time. Figure about $30-50 for those mods. It also needs alignment which, assuming you didn't get a lemon, is mainly some foil and an hour or so of time. A torque screwdriver at around 2 Nm is helpful.


Edit: For future reference, "right now" the Acaia Orbit has not started shipping, the JT64 is in its first iteration, the HB64 hasn't appeared other than in the ODM's literature, and the Zerno doesn't have a ship date or the 100 early purchasers they were trying to get.