I currently have a Profitec Pro 500 (HX). While I love the machine, it cannot be plumbed and I'm already getting tired filling the water tank. I had originally settled on the ECM Synchronika as my upgrade; however, I've been looking strongly at the LMLM. Both machines have flaws so I was hoping for some feedback from users who love/use/own either of the machines (and maybe even tried both -- I'd include the Profitec Pro 700 in the used both category). I have read both reviews and nearly every thread on this site concerning both devices. For the sake of argument, the $1500 difference in price is a non factor to me. I want my end game home machine to go with my end game grinder (Monolith Flat). I don't want to get 3/4ths of the way there only to get upgradittis in 6 months.

So here are my Pros / Cons as I see them for each machine.

ECM Synchronika:

• 1. Joystick Steam Valves for instant on/off
  2. Angled Steam/Water values for easier positioning
  3. Super quick/easy to take off all panels and get 'under the hood'; clean layout; easy to user service
  4. Great clearance underneath the group; cup riser gives best of both worlds
  5. Proven e61 design for 'forgiveness'
  6. Clean Digital PID Display that doubles as a shot timer (get a coffee dialed in and you don't have to always use a scale)
  7. Comes with plumb kit and easily switchable (German's are the best engineers after all)
  8. According to WLL, if you plumb the machine and use the top tier BWT filtration system they sell, you will never have to worry about scale or the need to descale the machine.
  9. Line pressure pre-infusion so you can 'profile' a bit using the ECM midpoint design.
  
  Biggest Cons:
  
  Questionable steam power. However, everyone talking about it is using a 2 hole tip. The LMLM uses a 4 hole tip so it's not fair to compare. I haven't seen a GREAT video or commentary of someone who has increased boiler temp and switch to a 4 hole tip to see if it approaches LMLM steam power (not equals; just gets close to where it's not a big deal anymore).
  
  Is the E61 out dated and as 'future proof' as the LMLM? On that regard, does the LMLM provide better clarity in the espresso or can both machines get the most out of the grinder. In other words, using a Monolith dialed in for each machine, can you really tell a taste difference? Some of the reviews on the LMLM say things like: "First prosumer machine I'd buy; equals cafe quality coffee" etc, etc. Did these same reviewers (say at Counter Culture) use a Profitec Pro 700 / ECM and are comparing it to that or are they comparing it to older E61 DBs like a Brewtus or Alex Duetto?

LMLM

• 1. It's a La Marzocco. In the home. And doesn't approach the cost of a decent used car.
  2. Love the LM portafilers. Not certain they properly fit an e61 based on what I've read without modifications.
  3. Dat Steam though!
  4. Very CLEAN espresso experience. I love how there isn't the thermosyphon in the way of watching the reflection in the mirror. Plus those Barista Lights really are a nice touch. I'm also a fan of the dial for temperature as it keeps the front very clean.
  5. Fast Warm Up time. Small brew boiler for quick / painless coffee temperature changes.
  
  UNKNOWN: Again, I said it in the ECM section but it bears repeating. If properly dialed in, does this machine produce more clarity and top tier Cafe style coffee that no other sub $5,000 machine can? If it can, then this is the most important factor to know you are at the end game.
  
  CONS; This is my biggest bother. Why on earth on a $4,500 machine is the steam wand a 'burn me?' My first machine had wands like this and while yes, you can grab the rubber and use a cloth, you still burn yourself when you're in a hurry and the milk cooks on much more than the no burn wands. That's a major downgrade that I know will bother me.
  
  Another big concern I have with the LMLM is the reliability and serviceability. I don't want to have LM Home have to come out once a year to service my machine. I'm reading reports that the pressure relief valve cracks every 6-12 months and needs to be replaced. The inside of the machine looks like a maze; no where near as clean as the ECM. It also sounds like this machine is more susceptible to scale build up, even if you use proper water, even to the point LM wants you to keep the machine on 24/7? No thanks; not when you make 2-4 drinks per day. I'm hoping these claims are greatly exaggerated but would love to hear from folks who have had the machine 2+ years now on how the maintenance has been.

Thank you for helping me nail down the best machine for me.

Hard choice for sure. Since you're good on your grinder already and cost isn't a factor, I would take the LMLM

I own a Vetrano 2b which is comparable to the ECM in many ways (the ECM has a larger steam boiler which is where it wins over the Vertrano.) If I was in the same boat as you I would buy the Linea. The only two things I would miss would be the PID, and the fact that the PID display has an integrated shot timer. If temp control read out and fine adjustment is a must, the ECM will make you very happy.

Really with your budget though, my choices of pump driven machines would be between a pressure profiling e61(Izzo/Quickmill/Vesuvius/etc) vs the LMLM. Determining if I want to tinker, or if I want consistent back to back shots would be my hard choice.

I have confidence you could navigate under the hood of the LMLM just the same as the ECM when the time comes.

^if the LMLM had a real paddle group on it I think it would be an easier decision. Personally, I think the ability to use line pressure p/i tips the scales in favor of the Synchronika. Check out the videos posted by "Nottoobitter". It's a great demonstration of how well the lever functions on the ECM machine and what you can do with it. I like how the Synk can turn off the steam boiler if not needed as well. The electronics are on that side of the machine so if you don't do much milk that's kind of an added bonus for longevity.

ECM Synchronika

LM portaflters work fine on e61 groups btw.

The E61 group isn't outdated but it does limit temperature stability and shot recovery time. Upgrading to a E61 double boiler won't address those limitations.

We're lucky to have a La Marzocco Home store in Seattle and I was able to try the Mini out for an hour. It delivers outstanding temperature stability and recovers quickly from shots. And steaming is awesome. It is also gorgeous in white with the walnut accessories. After using the machine, I decided the Mini is my best upgrade choice from my HX machine.

According to Dan, the Pro 700 (and ECM Synchronika would be the same) can do back to back shots with a 1 minute recovery time. It's the exact same as his LMLM review so that's why I'm trying to see if the temp stability is the same, do they really have the same quality coffee?

I'm leaning towards a white LMLM if I go that route. Some pictures I've seen, the glossy finish looks plastic. I assume it looks better in person? How would it contrast with subway tile back splash and a black Monolith? I'm thinking well but pictures are hard to tell.

jammin wrote:^if the LMLM had a real paddle group on it I think it would be an easier decision. Personally, I think the ability to use line pressure p/i tips the scales in favor of the Synchronika. Check out the videos posted by "Nottoobitter". It's a great demonstration of how well the lever functions on the ECM machine and what you can do with it. I like how the Synk can turn off the steam boiler if not needed as well. The electronics are on that side of the machine so if you don't do much milk that's kind of an added bonus for longevity.

ECM Synchronika

LM portaflters work fine on e61 groups btw.

I like the shot timer as that makes my routine on a dialed in coffee easier. I also am a big fan of the joysticks and the angles of the wands. I think the quality here is better compared to the LMLM. I'd love to see a video of the 4 hole tip on it in action to see if it really cuts time I'm half.

Kryptonicspb wrote:Hard choice for sure. Since you're good on your grinder already and cost isn't a factor, I would take the LMLM

I own a Vetrano 2b which is comparable to the ECM in many ways (the ECM has a larger steam boiler which is where it wins over the Vertrano.) If I was in the same boat as you I would buy the Linea. The only two things I would miss would be the PID, and the fact that the PID display has an integrated shot timer. If temp control read out and fine adjustment is a must, the ECM will make you very happy.

Really with your budget though, my choices of pump driven machines would be between a pressure profiling e61(Izzo/Quickmill/Vesuvius/etc) vs the LMLM. Determining if I want to tinker, or if I want consistent back to back shots would be my hard choice.

I have confidence you could navigate under the hood of the LMLM just the same as the ECM when the time comes.

Pressure profiling is more of a gimmick and does not interest me. Maybe a few light roasts benefit?

Any coffee taste comparisons between the 2?

Ok profiling isn't your thing so for sure the linea mini. For me personally owning a db e61: moving from a pro 500 to a ecm synk, would be a lateral move. The pro 500 to a linea mini would sit very well in my mind as an upgrade.

JayBeck wrote:I'm leaning towards a white LMLM if I go that route. Some pictures I've seen, the glossy finish looks plastic. I assume it looks better in person? How would it contrast with subway tile back splash and a black Monolith? I'm thinking well but pictures are hard to tell.

I was initially skeptical about the white color, but it's stunning when you see it with the walnut accessories. The stainless model is very bland in comparison. If you have questions about the Mini, I'd recommend contacting La Marzocco USA directly. I got a demo of the Mini from Dave, who heads sales for the Home group. I was impressed that he spent an hour with me to discuss and try out the machine. They seem very committed to providing a great owner experience. You can also directly order the machine from La Marzocco.