Drawn to lever espresso machines. Help a newbie choose? - Page 11

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
chappcc
Posts: 269
Joined: 9 years ago

#101: Post by chappcc »

TheMadTamper wrote: And Wendy's pull manages to cause a tiny amount of flex in the Salvatore in one video. Can't get more overbuilt than those frames.
The "flex" you noted with the Salvatore machine is actually the rubber feet on the front of the frame comperessing as the lever is pulled down. The frame remains rigid. I did a quick test on my SCL and noted the compression of the rubber feet.

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TheMadTamper
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#102: Post by TheMadTamper replying to chappcc »

I've loved that video with Dritan since Dan shared it in the 800 review...but wow, that second video is really interesting. As someone who feels like a shrinking contingent in the internet coffee scene that loves "Italian coffee" above "3rd wave" I found that video so fun. Though I also found his tamping to be...unorthodox? Very unlevel? But then he seems to do a flip like it's intentional. he seems to tamp at a slant but not fully compress one edge and then flip some of that over. Or something? The side-rinse of the PF spouts is something I haven't seen before. And he doesn't wipe the PF at all. I do worry that IMS baskets just have more residue and need a rinse.
Yeah, I noticed the feet compressing on one of the videos and that already made me decide I'd have to get the machined feet (round ones aren't that expensive for the set, stepped ones like a Faema Lambro's are pricy but pretty.) But if you look at video Wendy did (red machine with metal feet) there's a slight bit of frame flex there (the table moves a bit, but the upper body moves more than the bottom ever so slightly). Then again, if you look really closely at the 4 group Bosco in Dritan's video above, you can see ever so slight flex a the mounting joint even on there!

Funny enough, the videos where Salvatore himself is demoing the machines on a metal footed machine though there's no motion of any sort beyond the rubber feet and the table on one machine. The moral of the story, I suppose, is don't mess with Wendy! :lol:

Technically flex is probably less likely with the rubber feet because the feet take the compression before the frame whereas metal feet give the downward force nowhere to go.

If I remember, you have the early SCL right after launch, right? I'd PMed the other two SCL owners I found with some questions, but skipped you since the issues of the early unit probably don't apply :D
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chappcc
Posts: 269
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#103: Post by chappcc »

TheMadTamper wrote: If I remember, you have the early SCL right after launch, right? I'd PMed the other two SCL owners I found with some questions, but skipped you since the issues of the early unit probably don't apply :D
I think my SCL is the next iteration after the first launch. I noted some design changes in units after mine.
I've removed the inner spring and added PID boiler temperature control, both of which I like.

For those interested in the Alex Leva, Chris' Coffee no longer distributes them. I don't know the who in the US now carries the Izzo lever line.

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IamOiman
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#104: Post by IamOiman »

truemagellen wrote:The one thing he does not do that I see more in the Napoli Region machines is the 'spoon' maneuver. Where they cut the shot with a spoon and remove the cup without getting coffee on the lip.
video
I am not sure where you have been in Napoli but I have seen the spooning method in many bars I frequented, from my Bar friend to the ones in downtown.
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
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belegnole
Posts: 440
Joined: 13 years ago

#105: Post by belegnole »

chappcc wrote:
For those interested in the Alex Leva, Chris' Coffee no longer distributes them. I don't know the who in the US now carries the Izzo lever line.
I spoke with them about that. The reason I was given was that it just didn't sell enough. Too tall was another, and of course the Achille is a better machine. I can belive the not selling, as plummed in levers have to be pretty niche.
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truemagellen
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#106: Post by truemagellen »

IamOiman wrote:I am not sure where you have been in Napoli but I have seen the spooning method in many bars I frequented, from my Bar friend to the ones in downtown.
:mrgreen:

I saw two homeless spooning near the highway last week.

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TheMadTamper
Posts: 233
Joined: 5 years ago

#107: Post by TheMadTamper »

chappcc wrote:I think my SCL is the next iteration after the first launch. I noted some design changes in units after mine.
I've removed the inner spring and added PID boiler temperature control, both of which I like.

For those interested in the Alex Leva, Chris' Coffee no longer distributes them. I don't know the who in the US now carries the Izzo lever line.
I think there's been a few design iterations in that time. Yeah, i was hoping to hear from someone with a newer unit. I pmed seb and Russell... Hoping they have some feedback (and units newer than yours...).

What are you finding most beneficial about the pid on a lever? I've been torn that those are kind of unnecessary, though i like how they are gentle on elements.

Interesting about the izzo. Chris seems to have jettisoned a lot of equipment along with the rebrand.... It's a little strange. And they seemed to really love the izzo. Must be down to low sales alone.
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chappcc
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#108: Post by chappcc »

TheMadTamper wrote:What are you finding most beneficial about the pid on a lever? I've been torn that those are kind of unnecessary, though i like how they are gentle on elements.
PID eliminates the clacking on/off of the PSTAT and narrows the boiler temperature fluctuations that the wide dead band of the PSTAT creates. The large mass of the group is what keeps the brew temperature stable, so PID leads to a quieter machine and marginally improves temperature stability.

LObin
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#109: Post by LObin »

Moderaters, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post this link so feel free to delete this if it's against the rules.

Here's Reiss Gunson take on PID vs his solution (variable preinfusion pressure) on lever machines:


https://londiniumespresso.com/news/why- ... -londinium
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TheMadTamper
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#110: Post by TheMadTamper »

chappcc wrote:PID eliminates the clacking on/off of the PSTAT and narrows the boiler temperature fluctuations that the wide dead band of the PSTAT creates. The large mass of the group is what keeps the brew temperature stable, so PID leads to a quieter machine and marginally improves temperature stability.
Do you have a plumbed or reservoir machine (or asking more specifically: What boiler size do you have?) I'd imagine the larger the boiler mass, the less the PID would affect temp as thermal inertia becomes more of a determining factor than the minor corrections of a PID. The clicking though...yeah, I consider that. I have an older Salvatore HX around with a Sirai and I do remember it was quite audible.....it's been nice running quieter with other machines. Though I'm not a 24/7 user (I figure being off for 8 hour blocks is still less element & gasket wear & tear when you add the years together than being on those 8 hours.)

Pro 800, LR, and SCL reservoir probably benefit more from a PID with a "small" (for a lever) 3.5/2.3/~2.5L boiler. But I wonder if the bigger boilers on Achille, Izzo, SCL plumb (4.5/5/5L) really do? Bosco just uses Sirais on the 6L and I'm not sure anyone's ever complained!

I also have wondered how boiler size mass affects the thermosyphon in terms of it's tendency to stall or not.
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