Does YouTube influence your buying decision - Page 8

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Primacog
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#71: Post by Primacog »

LewBK wrote:I agree with everything you're saying, with the one addition that if reviewers are remunerated they should disclose the sources of their payments prior to the review. I really do not like it when reviewers have a conflict of interest and don't disclose it. It's sneaky and deceptive. I'm fine if they say, I have a commercial relationship with XYZ grinder company or espresso machine maker, but I want to explain the features and why I like it. As problematic as commercial relationships can be in reviews, I find that the Youtube reviewers for coffee gear to be more upfront than reviewers for other products. Anyone here try mattress shopping and watch a Youtube review? It's a disaster of dishonesty and shills promoting mattresses they sell or get ad revenue from. Apparently, if you watch those reviews, every mattress ever made is above average and terrific.
I fully agree on the disclosure of conflict of interest to be mandatory for any sort of credibility.

Restaurant bloggers in some countries at least are also known to be quite conflicted with nary a negative review ever made.
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Milligan
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#72: Post by Milligan replying to Primacog »

I believe Lance commented on this previously. He said something along the lines of not wanting to spend his time on things he doesn't enjoy. I get that mentality but I can also see how it seems strange to always have an upbeat attitude on every product one reviews.

One thing that perhaps "bothers" me a bit is seeing 3+ YouTube coffee influencers all put out a video at the same time about a product. It makes it obvious that an embargo was imposed and the three personalities were coordinated directly by the producer of the product. It isn't at the same level as car reviewers that fawn over a new vehicle after being wined and dined by the manufacturer at some exotic location but it does mean producers are pulling the strings in a way and directing the "conversation."

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Jaroslav
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#73: Post by Jaroslav »

Milligan wrote:One thing that perhaps "bothers" me a bit is seeing 3+ YouTube coffee influencers all put out a video at the same time about a product. It makes it obvious that an embargo was imposed and the three personalities were coordinated directly by the producer of the product. It isn't at the same level as car reviewers that fawn over a new vehicle after being wined and dined by the manufacturer at some exotic location but it does mean producers are pulling the strings in a way and directing the "conversation."
This, 100%. This was obvious with the Micra and I see it lately happening with Mahlkönig's X54 for some reason (as the grinder is sort of old news by now). Mahlkönig asks to sign a frankly ridiculous contract if you want to take part. Very aggressive marketing for something that may not even need it.
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DaveC
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#74: Post by DaveC »

Milligan wrote:One thing that perhaps "bothers" me a bit is seeing 3+ YouTube coffee influencers all put out a video at the same time about a product. It makes it obvious that an embargo was imposed and the three personalities were coordinated directly by the producer of the product. It isn't at the same level as car reviewers that fawn over a new vehicle after being wined and dined by the manufacturer at some exotic location but it does mean producers are pulling the strings in a way and directing the "conversation."
This is because the companies view reviewers as a route to market and make them sign contracts...I know because I have been asked before and refused. I want to be free to say what I want, when I want and if I want. I won't even sign non disclosure when doing engineering reviews of prototype product that are only for the manufacturer. If they don't like it, they're not paying me so they can do one as far as I am concerned. This is because if I signed it, I would be precluded from saying anything. Which is a problem If I have a valid reason to express an opinion. I also don't make any money/a living from my activities, or have monetised channels, so I don't really care.

One case in point...I am looking at a new product (not out yet) which I believe should be configured and marketed a particular way, the manufacturer doesn't agree with me yet. When it does launch, I will make it my business to make a video that's absolutely clear on the way I think it should be set up, used and why. I couldn't do this under an NDA.

I was sent a Black Bianca by Lelit...(I already have 2, it was a present for all the free technical assist I gave them with development of various machines), I didn't even ask for it! They sent me a contract, there are 2 contracts they use. Mine only said, if I did make publish video, or publish photos, they would appreciate permission to use them. This was sent AFTER I got the machine and they took great pains to make clear that this was not the contract where I was mandated to make "publicity". Now I do actually intend to make a video, but not the "hey like and subscribe is this the best machine ever, join my patreon type". I want to make a how I set my V3 Bianca up, why and some hints and tips on using it. Mainly because the influencers didn't do a very good job of explaining features. I just thought I would wait for the dust to settle and to see if any of them would do a deeper dive...they haven't. I got this Black Bianca last November. I had the V3 Bianca just over a year before they launched it to look at, feedback and of course keep quiet.

I also have a SCACE II now and my recommended settings (which became the factory settings), were based on my 20 year old temp measuring device, which was SCACE II like. It was all done on the prototype Bianca V1, so I do need to recheck my work. Then contact them if there is an update to the best factory settings.

I don't publish many videos these days, but when I do, I do it purely to help the owners of various machines and give them the ability to peer over my shoulder, see the real experience in a real kitchen with no polish and few edits. Or just video when I am at coffee expos (I know, I need a much better smartphone). I certainly don't do any of it for free machines, or money, I have so many I don't know where to put them all....I keep them, because manufacturers do come back to me with questions. I've usually got 2 or 3 prototypes/pre production coffee things on the go at any one time.

My view on influencers (in general, not all) is they are an advertising route to market, like a butterfly moving from product to product and spreading sweet Nectar. I'm not sure they give enough information for a considered buying decision, but they do play a role in bringing new products to the markets attention. I don't believe many have the time or finances to go deeply into a product, as revenue is dependent on new videos of new products being put out very regularly. Stop publishing and your forgotten.

It's why I stopped reviewing many years ago...I prefer the deep dive, feeding back to the manufacturer (sometimes it's not easy for them to read) and seeing better products incorporating my ideas come to market....really not enough time to make videos. It's the part of the hobby I find most interesting though and has allowed me to meet a lot of people in different countries.

Someone said about all the reviews from many influencers always being good, which actually doesn't matter. When it's all good nothings good, or bad. Treat it like walking round a car showroom and you won't go far wrong, they are just information on what's new in the market. The reviewers actually don't care if you buy it or not, or what you buy, they care about clicks and engagement.

I personally don't care what machines people buy as I've input on so many, many people have something I have worked on. I suppose sometimes I get a bit disappointed if people don't value some of the ideas that have been incorporated over the years, unless of course the problem it's solved is now invisible to them. ECM Puristika being a case in point. I had a solution to a problem, they forgot to implement when testing the prototype. Only the first customers would have been aware...many will now be using the machine with my solution and never even realise it's there :). My favourite thing....working on new machines, grinders etc.. before they even go to CAD!!!
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meshkaffe
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#75: Post by meshkaffe »

I don't trust anyone with a potential motive. I think Hoff does a great job of being neutral because as Dave says (not about him in particular) he makes money on views. I find his urge to leave comments a bit disingenuous because it's for his gain not actual participation in discussion. I've never bought anything on the heels of any influencer and, in fact, it deters me from buying the product because in most cases manufacturers send out free products to high profile people to shill for them who in most cases are incentivized to be positive about their product. The problem lies in this format being their main source of income which can always be corrupted.

The one character I tolerate is Matt from Obsessed Garage if you're a car guy. I don't watch any of his vids these days but he can be summed up as boring, droning, eccentric yet vanilla, and he just buys what he wants to test with his own money so he can say whatever he wants. Most don't have this luxury and rely on youtube revenue. He can't be bought or at least brands can't pay him enough. I don't subscribe to the OG cult but I like his approach and I consume information from all sources to process it myself in order to form my own conclusions. I find myself critical of angles not presented/considered/discussed and ultimately I decide what I want.

Espressofilo
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#76: Post by Espressofilo »

meshkaffe wrote:I don't trust anyone with a potential motive. I think Hoff does a great job of being neutral because as Dave says (not about him in particular) he makes money on views.
Hoffmann has 1,7 millions subscribers and I think a video by him would easily normally reach at least 500.000 users. I think that, more than from YouTube, he makes money from the sponsors of the videos. I suppose - naively, I am not inside this business - that a sponsor would easily pay 10 pence for each view. A sponsor has a 1-minute ad in the video, and that pays much more than what YouTube would pay for each view, which is a fraction of what a sponsor would pay for a 5-second ad at the beginning of the video. That would amount to £50.000 for each video with this kind of views, in addition to money paid to him by YouTube. Yes there are expenses (the videographer, the editing, the charts etc.) but for this level of business it's a small cost. His sponsors are not related to coffee products so they impart no bias on his vision of coffee things.

Which is to say that Hoffmann is absolutely reliable as far as money coming from producers of coffee products is concerned. He has his own "bias" which is due to his taste or his personal preferences, but I think he can absolutely afford to be totally sincere in his videos, and this is probably one of the reasons why his videos are so popular, because he is not just sincere, but also obviously too successful to rely on money coming from biased reviews.

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baldheadracing
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#77: Post by baldheadracing »

rmongiovi wrote:There are a very, very few youtube videos that can influence my buying decisions. Stuff like Project Farm where I can see the tests on which video is based are information that I'll think about when making a decision.
Milligan wrote:Oh man, that Project Farm guy is pretty fun. He tests stuff that we all wonder about but no one ever does a head-to-head with.
DaveC wrote:One of my favourite YT channels. I've probably watched most of his stuff.
So ... have any of you been "influenced" into buying his coffee? :lol: https://ozzies.coffee/pages/about-us

(His site is being run through https://home.thecreatorstash.com/ )
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

rmongiovi
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#78: Post by rmongiovi »

No, can't say that I have (or that I knew he was selling coffee). As I said, I appreciate the way he tests products, shows you the tests, and lets you draw your own conclusions. If he's selling something that reduces him to the equivalent of every other youtube advertiser. I expect someone who is selling something to say that they like it. That's not information.

Milligan
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#79: Post by Milligan »

I didn't even know he sells coffee.

Primacog
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#80: Post by Primacog »

My approach has always been to assume that everybody who bothers to say anything about anything has a self interested reason to say it. So there is always a bias or a potential conflict lurking there somewhere. So I will just gather as much info about something and literally read as much as I can find on the net about the product that I am interested in acquiring and treat all of that info at an arms length and assess accordingly based on what appears most likely to be the true picture. I have signed up for the kickstarter for the timemore grinder based on that approach so I hope it will pan out well and not flame out instead, but it has stood me in good stead so far with the gear i have bought over the last decade or so! :D
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