baldheadracing wrote:It is starting to sound like you might want to consider a machine with a bigger boiler, say, 1.8l or higher in a lever or steam boiler, or 2l+ in an HX (assuming around 1.2 bar boiler pressure in all cases).

You bring up a good point, and I actually never really looked into lever machines with a boiler. Something like this:

https://www.1st-line.com/buy/la-pavoni- ... o-machine/

Is the main difference between 8 cup and 16 cup models boiler size?

My wife complained about Crossland CC1's size and ugliness, La Pavoni looks great and doesn't take up too much space. Looks like a good candidate.

Check out the Odyssey Argos. I can't wholeheartedly recommend it without one in hand, but worth considering if you can wait.

dkny3939 wrote:Actually that's a good point, something like this:

https://www.1st-line.com/buy/la-pavoni- ... o-machine/

Is the main difference between 8 cup and 16 cup models boiler size?

FWIW, neither Europiccola nor Professional meets my 1.8l @ 1.2 bar requirement.

Regardless of boiler size, current stock Pavoni's are weak steamers. The "ideal" compromise pressure for a pressurestat Pavoni is 0.78 bar. However, the steam tip seems to be sized for the vintage two-switch model and the tip's size has seemingly never been changed to match the weaker pressurestat models. (The vintage two-switch machines steam at a much higher pressure.) ... and then there is the annoying steam wand design of most current models. The only time I steam on my Pavoni's is when I want to be drinking a cappa within ten minutes of turning the machine on. (I have a two-switch and my pressurestat model has been extensively modified.)

OTOH, a stock Elektra Micro Casa will out-steam any Pavoni all day every day. More(longer) steam, drier steam, better steam tip design, properly-sized tip, etc. Micro Casa's have the best steam quality of all of my machines, although the bigger machines are faster.

Let me put it this way:
- for capacity, a 5l boiler at 1.2 bar and a 1500w element is limitless powerful steam (with the appropriate tip). Any less means that the steam will lessen and run out at some point; and
- quality, for example dryness, is a function of design - the Elektra Micro Casas and Marzocco Micras steam better than anything in their respective classes due to the design of all of the steam-related components - starting at the size of the fitting on the boiler all the way to the steam tip.

Just my opinion, and YMMV.