My problem is I don't upgrade, I add. I never sell the old stuff, it just accumulates in the basement!

WilsonHines wrote:But, this [Mazzer Mini] is just as serious as the SJ and makes just as good a grind.

It's true that all reviewers agreed that the Super Jolly compared very favorably in the Titan Grinder Project against all comers. However, the Mazzer Mini, in my opinion, trails behind the Super Jolly in terms of the ease of an even extraction and flavor profile. That said, not all TGP reviewers agreed the difference was noteworthy. For example, Jim felt the Mini was a close match in Can it Beat the Mazzer Robur?

I've kept these three grinders as standard test grinders for equipment evaluations; it would be interesting to do a blind three-way taste test someday. But my gut feel today is that the Robur would win, the Super Jolly would follow by a very close second, and the Mini would trail well behind, especially if the blend's profile favored the Jolly's strength (so-called "chocolate bomb" blends).

Great points. What is the real difference? The burrs are practically the same, save the size. If I had to guess, I wouldn't have thought the SJ was even a close 2nd to the Robur, as the Robur has a conical burr.

Any idea?

I don't know what the 'real' difference is, whatever that means, but as discussed in Difference between Mazzer Mini E burrs and Super Jolly burrs, just because burrs have the same diameter doesn't mean they're the same. As I've now learned several times during equipment evaluations, attempts to foretell results based on specifications or preconceived notions of design advantage is a fool's errand.

For the record, I didn't think the Mini was even remotely close to the Robur, while the SJ was. However, the other Titan reviewers thought the SJ was just as good as any of the big conicals, and on that I disagree; to me the Cimbali Max and all the commercial conicals were a slight but definite step up from the SJ. I advise a buyer with that budget level to go with the Ebay SJ rather than a new or Ebay Mini.

I moved from an endless chain of bad grinders and $200 home machines to an SL70 & Innova conical, then a Tea and Mini, now a Semi and Compak. I'd recommend any of these setups (although a used SJ is better idea than the Mini). There were detours through Solis, Isomac, and Versalab grinders, none of which I'd recommend. More controversially, a recent stint with a PIDed pair of Silvias as a two group test machine left me much colder than I expected. The Silvia gives shots with the body of a commercial espresso machine, but with very poor taste clarity, worse than many other home machines. I would not recommend it as a starter machine for people primarily interested in coffee taste. I'd spend the extra few hundred and go straight to an Expobar, Bezzera, or Oscar as a starter machine.

But the main thing that sticks out is that low end equipment either makes it impossible or very difficult to get the nuances of a coffee or to work the taste. So I would advise either going cheap for people who are not sure they are interested in this, or budgeting for commercial gear for those who do.

another_jim wrote:For the record, I didn't think the Mini was even remotely close to the Robur, while the SJ was.

Sorry if I misrepresented your words, my comment was based on your post below:

another_jim wrote:The Robur edged the Mini slightly in taste (1 point) in every round. The Robur's shots were a hair more aromatic, sweeter, and acidic (adding transparency and flavor) each time. The difference was slight even when going back and forth between the two shots; it would not have been detectable if one were tasting the shots separately. There were some crema points one way or the other, but the overall score was -15 to the Mini.

The Mini doesn't look so hot in the win/tie/loss columns (0-0-4), but the wording above implies it was a lot closer than the scores suggested, no? For reference, looking further down the thread, the Super Jolly's score was 2-0-2.

A consistent 1 point was a huge difference in this competition, since it had WBC style, 0 to 6, scoring, with taste points multiplied by 4. Most of the grinders won or lost by 1 or 1/2 point in just one of the two rounds at each weight, when they performed consistently. The inconsistent grinders always got clobbered in one round. Iirc, this happened to all the non-commercial grinders, including the Versalab. The full commercial Mini did not perform inconsistently, but it did perform consistently worse.

another_jim wrote:However, the other Titan reviewers thought the SJ was just as good as any of the big conicals, and on that I disagree; to me the Cimbali Max and all the commercial conicals were a slight but definite step up from the SJ.

At least one of the TGP reviewers (me) would also disagree. I didn't think any of the other grinders came close to beating the Robur. There did seem to be consensus that conical burrs were more forgiving/easier to dial in/had a larger sweet spot than planar burrs. But I thought the SJ held up quite well in this impressive lineup, and I preferred the SJ taste profile to at least one of the Titan conicals.

Upgraditis is a terminal disease for folks like me, although fortunately not a fatal one. In my case, much of it is driven by curiosity. For example, I'd enjoy owning a PID'd espresso machine at some point, just to experiment with more reproducible brew temps. But I also realize that, above a certain level of gear, the improvements are marginal. I reached that level a couple of years ago with the SJ and the Vetrano.

I knew this was going to get nasty and good!

question for Jim and John (or others who have compared)

what about the Kony ?
since I have a mini now and am looking to upgrade my grinder from my Mini

RapidCoffee wrote:
Upgraditis is a terminal disease for folks like me, although fortunately not a fatal one.

How can it be both "terminal" and "not fatal" at the same time?

Most of my upgraditis was cured with my Vivaldi II. Sure could use a better grinder, though.