DF83 vs Niche Zero
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Anyone have enough hands on experience to compare the DF83 and Niche Zero at this point? Both single dosers at a similar price point. Interested in workflow but more importantly taste in cup. I may wait a few months but am looking to up my grinder game. I am sure either will be a noticeable upgrade for me so it may be splitting hairs a bit.
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Here's my answer for the very same question some asked a few days ago on a FB group:
Here's a quick comparison: (keep in mind that I'm deep in the honeymoon phase with the DF83 BUT I've got experience with many other single dosing grinders)
Workflow: Very similar although there's more static with the DF83 so RDT is a must. Dialing in process and forgiveness are surprisingly just as great on the DF83.
Noise: The DF83 sound is not as pleasant but it grinds so much faster. The DF83 dosing cup collar rattles which is annoying. I'm currently using the cup only with and 3d printed adapter. Makes a bit more mess but it's way cleaner than the DF64 was.
Total retention: Good on the Niche Zero. Even better on the DF83. That's comparing stock grinders. I since removed the declumper on my DF83 and the retention is even lower now. Very little coffee in the chute and next to nothing inside the burr chamber. We're talkin 0.4-0.5g total. Basically, on a clean grinder, you loose about 0.4g on the first dose nothing on the following doses.
Espresso taste: The NZ is good. Works very well for milk drinks and medium / dark roasts. It works for light roasts but there's always that unpleasant harshness that is hard to hide. Profiling helps reduce this but it never fully disappears. I find it also doesn't do well with long pulls, long ratios or modern recipes like turbo shots.
The DF83 produces MUCH better shots. From dark to light roasts (haven't tried anything very light yet), the shots are sweet and mellow. More clarity although not to the level of something like the 64mm SSP MP. Bitterness and acitidy are much more pleasant than with any other grinder/burr set I've owned. Shots are juicy. The stock burrs are by far the most flexible I've tried, providing good results with all sorts of roasts and recipes. It's did very well with anything I've thrown at it. Medium/dark for milk drinks and light Ethiopian for espresso, alongée or Americano.
Filter: I find the NZ wasn't as bad in that department as others have said but when I got my DF64, it was a clear step up, even with the stock burrs. Haven't tried filter with the DF83 yet but the americanos and filter 2.0's I've made were amazing so I don't think I'll do filter anytime soon.
Before purchasing the DF83, I also considered a variable RPM 64mm grinder with cast burrs as well as a used Weber Key. I'm beyond happy with my choice. No regrets.
Knowing myself, I will probably consider a burr upgrade at some point, either the SSP HU or the awaited 83mm Cast's. Not because the stock burrs aren't good enough, quite the opposite. I'm just curious to find if I can keep the shot quality and flexibility of the Italmill's while getting a bit more clarity out of lighter roasts. I'm in no rush to switch them as I am very happy with the coffee at the moment.
Hope this helps!
Here's a quick comparison: (keep in mind that I'm deep in the honeymoon phase with the DF83 BUT I've got experience with many other single dosing grinders)
Workflow: Very similar although there's more static with the DF83 so RDT is a must. Dialing in process and forgiveness are surprisingly just as great on the DF83.
Noise: The DF83 sound is not as pleasant but it grinds so much faster. The DF83 dosing cup collar rattles which is annoying. I'm currently using the cup only with and 3d printed adapter. Makes a bit more mess but it's way cleaner than the DF64 was.
Total retention: Good on the Niche Zero. Even better on the DF83. That's comparing stock grinders. I since removed the declumper on my DF83 and the retention is even lower now. Very little coffee in the chute and next to nothing inside the burr chamber. We're talkin 0.4-0.5g total. Basically, on a clean grinder, you loose about 0.4g on the first dose nothing on the following doses.
Espresso taste: The NZ is good. Works very well for milk drinks and medium / dark roasts. It works for light roasts but there's always that unpleasant harshness that is hard to hide. Profiling helps reduce this but it never fully disappears. I find it also doesn't do well with long pulls, long ratios or modern recipes like turbo shots.
The DF83 produces MUCH better shots. From dark to light roasts (haven't tried anything very light yet), the shots are sweet and mellow. More clarity although not to the level of something like the 64mm SSP MP. Bitterness and acitidy are much more pleasant than with any other grinder/burr set I've owned. Shots are juicy. The stock burrs are by far the most flexible I've tried, providing good results with all sorts of roasts and recipes. It's did very well with anything I've thrown at it. Medium/dark for milk drinks and light Ethiopian for espresso, alongée or Americano.
Filter: I find the NZ wasn't as bad in that department as others have said but when I got my DF64, it was a clear step up, even with the stock burrs. Haven't tried filter with the DF83 yet but the americanos and filter 2.0's I've made were amazing so I don't think I'll do filter anytime soon.
Before purchasing the DF83, I also considered a variable RPM 64mm grinder with cast burrs as well as a used Weber Key. I'm beyond happy with my choice. No regrets.
Knowing myself, I will probably consider a burr upgrade at some point, either the SSP HU or the awaited 83mm Cast's. Not because the stock burrs aren't good enough, quite the opposite. I'm just curious to find if I can keep the shot quality and flexibility of the Italmill's while getting a bit more clarity out of lighter roasts. I'm in no rush to switch them as I am very happy with the coffee at the moment.
Hope this helps!
LMWDP #592
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I'm glad the OP opened this topic.
I'm also intrigued in the DF83. Had a DF64 prior to my current Niche Zero.
The review / user experience from LObin is really helpful. So far the reviews I've seen, either here on HB or those on Youtube, have been pretty positive (Pros > Cons) in many aspects, especially in its price range.
I'd think the DF83 would be a good addition to my set up being it has 83mm flat burrs (vs. the 63mm conical burrs in NZ).
I'm also intrigued in the DF83. Had a DF64 prior to my current Niche Zero.
The review / user experience from LObin is really helpful. So far the reviews I've seen, either here on HB or those on Youtube, have been pretty positive (Pros > Cons) in many aspects, especially in its price range.
I'd think the DF83 would be a good addition to my set up being it has 83mm flat burrs (vs. the 63mm conical burrs in NZ).
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(Thumbs up emoji)
I also had a moded V1 DF64 and tried various set of burrs (stock, MP, HU & Duramill). The stock DF83 for my personal taste and preference is superior in any way. There's just a richness, a sweetness, a balance that is better than any smaller flat burr grinder I've tried, or any conical as well.
However, this is limited to my own experience which doesn't involve larger burr grinders, variable rpm grinders nor the the 64mm cast burrs that so many praise.
I also had a moded V1 DF64 and tried various set of burrs (stock, MP, HU & Duramill). The stock DF83 for my personal taste and preference is superior in any way. There's just a richness, a sweetness, a balance that is better than any smaller flat burr grinder I've tried, or any conical as well.
However, this is limited to my own experience which doesn't involve larger burr grinders, variable rpm grinders nor the the 64mm cast burrs that so many praise.
LMWDP #592
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Appreciate your review. Curious how easy the Df83 is to change from filter to espresso compared to the NZ? I was fortunate enough to have a NZ, df64 with SSP (i believe HU, may have been MP) & my Sette side by side for a weekend. It really opened my eyes to the difference of flavor burr sets can make.LObin wrote: Filter: I find the NZ wasn't as bad in that department as others have said but when I got my DF64, it was a clear step up, even with the stock burrs. Haven't tried filter with the DF83 yet but the americanos and filter 2.0's I've made were amazing so I don't think I'll do filter anytime soon.
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I agree with LObin. I haven't tried a DF83, however I had a Niche Zero and a Ceado E37SD with SSP HU burrs. The 83 mm burrs are just better for espresso from dark to light and for pour over. I much preferred them for sure. There is still nice body along with enough clarity to experience the tasting notes in the coffee. Now this isn't high clarity for sure but for me it really showed the difference between grinders and how I prefer flats.
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If taste is most important to you, and with how subjective it is, seems like an easy question of whether you prefer coffee from conical or flat burr grinders.
If you're looking to do filter as well, flat burr all the way.
If you're looking to do filter as well, flat burr all the way.
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I don't have enough experience with flat vs conical to really know what my preference is honestly. I got my first real Espresso machine for Christmas and enjoying the learning journey though. It seems like these are probably the best options for under $800-1k. I suppose I am leaning toward the DF83 based on what little I have heard/found so far.
I have a Breville that I'm using at present and could always continue to use for filter/pour overs if I don't like the results out of whatever I buy next.
I have a Breville that I'm using at present and could always continue to use for filter/pour overs if I don't like the results out of whatever I buy next.
- JB90068
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FWIW - Lance Hedrick posted a video review of the DF83.
Old baristas never die. They just become over extracted.
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Good topic. I have a Niche now and enjoy it. I only use it for espresso. I did a Niche vs Fellow SSP MP test with pour over and the SSP was by far the clear winner. I really enjoy the Niche's syrupy medium/dark shots though. I'm tempted to pick up the DF83 and use it side by side with the Niche for a month or so and keep the one I like more. I absolutely love the Niche workflow though, so the DF83 would need to match that or be substantially better in the cup to fuss with any extra work. Eager to hear more reviews as people get a hold of them.