Iowa_Boy wrote:How did you take it apart to replace the spring? I have a bunch of extra decent springs (including some of the lighter weight) that I bought when I thought it was easy to replace.

On the Decent Diaspora on May 27 John Buckman said:

"If you have a v2 tamper you'll need to boil 2cm (1 inch) of water, and then let the tamper base sit in it, in order to loosen the Loctite glue holding the base in. The v3 tamper doesn't have this glue."

I have a version 2 though I no longer use it as my current machine uses smaller baskets. Though I liked it, I didn't find it to be great. A lighter spring like in the version 3 may be an improvement as the stiff spring in the 2 definitely reduced the tactile feedback as others have said.

I am about to get a new tamper and that's going to be a Bravo. Partially because the Bravo comes in a size I need. I also like a number of things that Gilberto has done with them. Hopefully this will be the last tamper for awhile.

Iowa_Boy wrote:How did you take it apart to replace the spring? I have a bunch of extra decent springs (including some of the lighter weight) that I bought when I thought it was easy to replace.

Mine came apart by unscrewing the handle counter clockwise.

belegnole wrote:I am about to get a new tamper and that's going to be a Bravo. Partially because the Bravo comes in a size I need. I also like a number of things that Gilberto has done with them.

I think that would be my choice if I was in the market for one at the moment.

Would the v3 pair well with a distributor tool like the Ona OCD v3? What I mean is, is there any reason to get: (A) a calibrated tamper, (B) an auto-leveling tamper, or (C) any other tamper other than the Decent v3 if I plan to use a distributor tool (Asso jack, St Anthony, Ona OCD, etc.) as well?

All depends on how good your grinder is, as well as your technique with those tools. No tool, no matter how expensive, will make up for poor technique or a bad grinder. A highly skilled barista can pull a good shot without even using a tamper. Some argue that the more you mess with the puck, the more likely you are to mess up the puck. That said, a repeatable puck-prep regimen is the key. "Leveling" tampers don't assure uniformity, just that the surface is level. Pound one into a mountain and you'll get highly compressed grounds at the middle and loose around the edges. Puck-prep tools aren't magical either. All of these help compensate for slight errors in prep. Some (most?) were designed for production settings where speed is of the essence, or for barista competitions and their technical points. Home use is a different thing.

I chose a force-indicating, squared-to-basket tamper as one of my goals is to get a "casual" espresso appreciator the ability to pull a good shot, now that the DE1 means that the whole HX cooling flush and watching the pull to know when to stop is out of the process. I'll be able to comment more fully on the Bravo when it is delivered and I have a chance to use it for a while.

Thank you. Just to be clear, I suppose I am wondering - if I get a leveling tooling such as Asso Jack, Ona OCD, or otherwise - would that make any "auto-leveling" tamper redundant?

With a distributor device as I mentioned, that would make a perfectly level puck, and then tamping to a consistent pressure (assisted by say the decent tamper v3) would cover all my bases?

At least in my opinion, the puck should be level long before a mechanical leveler of any sort is applied. The "leveling" tampers are, perhaps, better though of as "impossible to tamp out of level" tampers. Classic tampers can be canted in the basket if the force is not applied evenly/skillfully. You can manually level the grinds, run a leveler, and then tamp it "off" and have uneven extraction.

If you're pulling medium or medium-dark roasts with a decent grinder, then, with practice, a tamper of any sort is perhaps enough. When you start working with lighter roasts, puck prep seems to become more important.

I'm still not convinced that a leveler tool/tamper can resolve grind-density or -distribution issues alone. With medium-light and light roasts, if I don't take action beyond a shake-to-level, I can see evidence of the original mound of grinds in the center of the basket. Others have reported that using a shaker cup with a flip-over technique ends up with a lopsided extraction, even after simple leveling. Just the weight of the grounds falling into the basket apparently results in uneven compression and distribution. Auto-leveling tools seem, to me, to be a "last 1%" touch, rather than a panacea.

As a basic set-up, I'd recommend a dosing funnel (mainly to keep things tidy), a fine-gauge, manual rake, and a tamper (square-to-the-basket like the DE, Bravo, and a few others, is a good option). The DE tampers seem to be well thought out and executed. I'm happy with the on-sale DE funnel I have (I couldn't figure out why it was considered a "second", perhaps the printing?).

The rake that I use was about US$10. Four 0.3-0.4 mm acupuncture needles in a cork, drilled with a 1/16" bit. Thanks to John at DE for the idea to try out before they productize it. The needles are widely available through general mail-order channels for cleaning 3D-printer nozzles. They're super flexible, so I'm not sure that my attempts to dull them with fine-grade abrasive did anything, or that it was needed.

https://decentespresso.com/rake

or, for exquisite wood, talk with @cannonfodder Custom Wood for your Espresso Machine

Thanks for such thorough answers. The puck rake from DE looks interesting (is this essentially a WDT?)

What is a fine-gauge? And what would you recommend specifically?

I'd be using medium-light roasts most often (that is what is popular here in Portland, OR) and grinding on a Niche Zero. Would I still need the dosing funnel? The NZ has a cup you just flip into the puck, but it sounds like you're saying the option to pour it into the basket may be superior to avoid the weight of the grinds compressing?

All that to say, I am not entirely clear on your recommendation...

(1) DE v3 tamper (no auto-leveling), using a rake to distribute evenly (no additional leveling tool needed)
(2) an auto-leveling tamper (so, not the DE v3), still using a rake to distribute evenly (but no additional leveling tool needed)

If I am correct, it sounds as if you place little value in the dedicated leveling tool, but might recommend an auto-leveling tamper (not the DE v3) to ensure that the tamper doesn't run the puck due to a lack of skill in evenly applying pressure?

WDT tool, puck rake, yes. I hesitate to call it a "WDT tool" as I don't follow the WDT technique with it to the letter. I have found that, for me, the finer the wires, the better my results, with the coffees that I'm pulling these days and with my specific grinder. People have had good luck with everything from disposable chopsticks to these fine 0.3-0.4 mm needles. For me, these acupuncture needles have been consistent and good for my prep.

I don't have a Niche Zero yet, but I have heard that filling in around the edges of the basket, right from the grinder's outlet, is a technique that can provide repeatable, excellent quality shots.

A tamper that helps prevent tipped-axis tamping is, I think, very helpful for beginners, those with weaker hand strength or coordination, or anyone who is just waking up when they start pulling shots. Several are made that I know or believe to be very well designed and executed, including the current DE v3, Bravo, Force, and many more. No matter what the marketing calls them, I consider these to be tampers that help prevent un-leveling, rather than ones that level an uneven basket load. I think it's hard to go wrong with any of the ones that have a strong following here.

A force-indicating tamper is, in my opinion, either a simple training tool, or very useful for those with weaker hand strength or coordination. These include the early DE units, Espro, Bravo, and probably a few more. Of the force-indicating tampers that I know of, only the Bravo is also a square-to-basket tamper.

The Force Tamper is somewhat unique in that it is an impact tamper. Many use it and enjoy it. Because of its design, it tamps square, and tamps with a repeatable force.

If you don't select a square-to-basket tamper, make sure the one you select fits your hand well. That means buy a relatively inexpensive one first, so you know what kind of handle you like before you dump $200+ into fancy wood and a round chunk of steel. With a "manual" tamper, I like to be able to have my fingertips feel the edge of the tamper and basket so I can tell I'm going down squarely. Everyone has their own preferences. Some like the newer "button" or "push" style tampers. My cheap tamper from 15 years ago still works quite well, despite being no-tech and long before anyone worried much more than about being roughly 58 mm in diameter, rather than if another 0.05 mm made a difference.