Cormorant vs. Bullet - Page 2

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
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Almico

Postby Almico » Feb 11, 2019, 11:35 am

ZooHouseCoffee wrote:He doesn't need to exaggerate, they will sell out anyways. If you've followed Sweet Marias for any period of time you'd know Tom wouldn't say anything that wasn't true just to sell something.


I didn't say he was exaggerating. I didn't say he said anything he didn't believe to be true.

Read the black and not the white.

ZooHouseCoffee

Postby ZooHouseCoffee » replying to Almico » Feb 11, 2019, 12:06 pm

Ok let's try this again:

There is a Ton of Value in an opinion from this specific source considering who it is, regardless of if they are selling them or not.

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Almico

Postby Almico » replying to ZooHouseCoffee » Feb 11, 2019, 12:07 pm

That's better. And I disagree.

SJM

Postby SJM » Feb 11, 2019, 2:00 pm

This thread has gotten kinda weird, but somehow I don't see how there is any way to compare a gas roaster to an electric roaster. They are different beasts altogether, and deciding whether to roast with gas or with electricity would come before deciding which gas roaster or which electric roaster to chose. The Cormorant and the Bullet are the newest iterations of each in the small home roaster range, but comparing them seems to ignore their most basic characteristic.

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Peppersass

Postby Peppersass » Feb 11, 2019, 5:10 pm

I think that would be true for previous generations of electric roasters, but my understanding is that the big selling point of the Bullet is induction heating of the drum, which is reputed to be as responsive as gas.

tglodjo

Postby tglodjo » Feb 11, 2019, 5:29 pm

SJM wrote:I don't see how there is any way to compare a gas roaster to an electric roaster. They are different beasts altogether, and deciding whether to roast with gas or with electricity would come before deciding which gas roaster or which electric roaster to chose. The Cormorant and the Bullet are the newest iterations of each in the small home roaster range, but comparing them seems to ignore their most basic characteristic.


My intention in starting this thread was an attempt to begin to understand these differences and why they matter, not comparing to see which one is "better" since that's completely subjective. I'm pulled towards both and want to hear from gas roasters why they prefer gas and vice versa.

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slickrock

Postby slickrock » Feb 12, 2019, 2:04 am

Although both are roasters, their product conceptualization of is quite different and target different customers:

The Coromant is effectively an old-school manual drum roaster, focussing on solid materials, lack of proprietary hardware and hence self-maintainable if something were to happen to owner. It's basically a fully integrated Huky (capacities are similar) with some added flourishes. All the benefits and challenges of a manual roaster at there and integrating it to roast software (e.g. Artisan) is advised to get the maximum utilization from the open platform. There's basically nothing in the design that would to keep you from modding or augmenting the roaster to your hearts desire. If you want to bring automation into the fold, you will need supporting hardware (e.g Arduino/TC4) and some technical knowhow to make it work with Artisan.

The Bullet is more like high-end self-contained roasting appliance with proprietary technology, and you are at the whim of the manufacture as a going-concern (LynWeber anyone?). Its like taking something like a Hottop, nearly quadrupling its capacity, removing the plastic bits and providing more sophisticated automation. Someone can run it without a whole lot of explicit knowledge about controlling a manual roaster, although getting it setup correctly with automation, charging, warmup and other prep will likely require roaster experience or experience from others whom are seasoned with the machine. Built-in automation aside, an advantage of Bullet, IMO, is it's cost and smaller footprint/weight for 1Kg roaster platform (basically twice the capacity in comparison). My 1kg roaster is an near-immovable 200lb beast that lists for nearly twice the cost if purchased today.
07/11/1991, 08/21/2017, 04/08/2024, 08/12/2045

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hankua

Postby hankua » Feb 12, 2019, 8:43 am

There are a lot of differences between the gas Cormorant and induction Bullet, gas vs induction being the first big one. I have a small 220v single burner induction drop in and use it every day for pour over. The heat transfer to metal is almost instantaneous and no excess heat can be felt above or to the side of the kettle. Which brings up a major question about the Bullet.

How does it heat the incoming air? The new 2k Bullet's are going to have an incoming heated air system which leads me to question the original R1. It would seem the only way for incoming air to be heated is by the drum itself, unless there is some plate or heat sink being heated as well. If I ever make it over to Aillio headquarters, maybe they can show me a Bullet in pieces.

Another difference between the two is technology, as the Bullet has a lot of it built in whereas the Cormorant is analog. Supposedly the newer Bullets are going to be able to download error codes to HQ, where they can diagnose an issue remotely. Having all this technology integrated is great for upgrading and downloading the latest change, and a nightmare for some who technology issues/error messages are "not much fun".

One thing the OP ought to consider is what's the minimum charge of green coffee he's looking to use, as a lot of Bullet owners are charging 700+ grams as their sweet spot. The Cormorant being basically a 1lb roaster should be able to roast 250g with control on the low end.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears the Cormorant has a diverter for the bean cooling tray; where a single exhaust tube can work with the drum and tray. This is a feature that some of the other roasters in it's class lack and found on the higher priced professional level machines.

I agree with Alan, Tom is not an independent reviewer; but to his credit has gone "all in" with Aillio. They trained Julio for repairs and customer support and are stocking spart parts. This is the best of both worlds for Aillio having SM as a distributor and partner.

Cleaning the fan. The exhaust system in the Bullet is one of it's weak points, but at the list price can easily be overlooked. You have to completely remove the fan for cleaning as the housing is built in. I'd just buy a few spares and pop in a clean one, hopefully the housing is not too difficult with the cleaning ritual. Not sure what the Coromat has for a fan, assume it's accessible underneath and not difficult to take off for cleaning?

Bullet has the brand new high tech IR sensor for reading bean temperature, think it reads drum temps as well as it's pointed down at an angle. Coromont has traditional thermocouple ports for datalogging or built in gauge for manual roasting.

tglodjo

Postby tglodjo » Feb 12, 2019, 10:01 am

Thanks, hankua and slickrock! That's exactly the kind of information and comparison I've been looking for. I love the analog look and feel of the Cormorant, but capacity will be a deciding factor for me. I'd really prefer to roast 500-800g batches, which would have me "maxing out" the Cormorant every time, which worries me--especially since ideal batches are a good bit below the advertised maximum. I am a techie, though, and really love how Aillo seems to be innovating. Currently leaning towards the Bullet, though I am on a Cormorant waiting list for fall shipping. Really appreciate the info!

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JohnB.

Postby JohnB. » Feb 12, 2019, 10:16 am

randyr5 wrote:I just inquired about the Cormorant and the delivery is now out to November 2019. It would be just north of $2200 shipped and insured to the US, plus an extra $125 if you want one of the color choices. For a few hundred more, the Bullet has larger bean capacity and should be more readily available.


Has the price increased recently? Total was $2000 last November & that included Paypal's fees/exchange rate.
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