I have a Baratza Vario and am interested in upgrading. Ideally I'd like to try a conical (although the Eureka 75mm grinders are interesting). I drink mainly dark traditional roasts, occasionally a medium roast. It seems that conicals retain a bunch more than flats so single dosing would be most practical. I would like to stay below $1600 if possible. So my choices seem to be, for hand grinding a Pharos, Helor 106, Weber HG -1 (used) Weber HG -2. Or for a motorized grinder: Niche, Weber Key (a little over budget), Eureka KRE (retention?? single dosing??), and I'm not sure what else. I make 3 - 6 doubles a day. I've never had a hand grinder, so I'm not sure if the experience would get old fast, though I am in good shape. I am a hobbyist woodworker and I often pick up a hand tool in preference to a motorized one. I am not opposed to preordering something, but a grinder that's available now would be a big bonus. I think the only ones on my list that are available quickly are the Pharos, Helor, and Eureka. Please advise! Thanks!!

A Pharos with the bench dogs bolted to a heavy board would be the least expensive. I had an HG-1 and couldn't tell the difference. The Pharos V2 is a lot more ergonomic than a v1.1 (shaking out the grinds is just plain annoying). I have had two Pharoi going for years now so I can have two coffees dialed in.

I do have a Key on order, but I'm not expecting any improvement in the cup over the Pharos.

I just looked on the Niche website and black 110v Niche Zeros are available; white is sold out ... https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/ ... 3825494147

baldheadracing wrote:The Pharos V2 is a lot more ergonomic than a v1.1 (shaking out the grinds is just plain annoying).

I'm not totally clear on the improvements on V2 Pharos -- do all the grounds get into the cup or pf or do you have to do a bunch of tapping/banging whatever to get the last grounds out? Have you had any alignment issues?

$1600 budget? I would go with the HG2 without even batting an eye.

jgood wrote:I'm not totally clear on the improvements on V2 Pharos -- do all the grounds get into the cup or pf or do you have to do a bunch of tapping/banging whatever to get the last grounds out? Have you had any alignment issues?

Probably best explained with video:

Using the catch cup: Using an OE funnel to grind directly into a basket. Note use of bench dog: I use the catch cup as I found the funnel+basket a little fiddly. In addition, I use two bench dogs as I often have lighter roasts. (However, I usually use other grinders for lighter roasts.)

Retention is effectively zero assuming RDT where the climate warrants it.

I can't speak to alignment out-of-the-box as I have a 1.0 that I added Voodoo-daddy mods to so I had to do the alignment on that grinder, and the other was a 1.1 that I didn't use until after I converted it to a v2 and thus did the alignment on that grinder as well. (OE used to sell a conversion kit.)

I also have a funnel on top to load the beans so I don't use the "popper stopper" (which I also found fiddly) - the file for 3d printing the funnels were posted in the thread linked below. Also in the thread was a neat mod and plans for a wood base to convert a v1.1 to grind into a catch cup. I had the pieces printed but never did that part of the mod. The thread says Pharos 2 but it is what OE calls 1.1 now Pharos 2 Modifications

I have a Pharos. The problem with mine is the alignment. Others, or would say the majority, do not seem to have such issue.
Since you are handy, then why not a Pharos that you motorize for fun!! You would still be able to manually use it if you wish.

If you will do more than 2 shots in a row, I think hand grinding may not be suitable. Yes, the Pharos is fast, but requires some effort. Since you mentioned dark roats, then you should be good to crank it.

For motorized, Niche gets lots of love. Among the motorized ones, I can only speak for Eureka KR which I have: I have the doser version picked up new for ~750 usd. It grinds 15 grams in six seconds when I single dose. No pop corning. I use a bellow and RDT, and retention is reasonable at around .7 gm on average. When I remove the burr carrier for cleaning, there is around 6 gms in the grind chamber. Some coffee exchange is taking place, but not sure how much. When I grind two shots in a row, I do not taste a difference between the shots. If your budget allows, Weber Key would be great, especially for single dosing. Burrs likely to be better than Eureka's conical burrs.

Lately I have been using medium roasts, and a good option for such roasts is DF64 with SSP burrs. I use SSP burrs in a mazzer SJ and I really like the combo. I love the conical and the DF64 with SSP. So can not recommend one over the other except that the Eureka adjustment is a pleasure to use.

Of those mentioned I have the Helor 106 and am 100% satisfied with everything it has to offer. The extreme build quality, out-of-the box alignment, compact design, adjustability is top notch. Definitely gives a great end result and like using it so much my electric is on standby 99% of the time and my daily average is 6-7 19 gram doubles and still never grow tired of the process. Briefly considered the Pharos V2, especially at the insanely low price point, but not impressed with the adjustment system and likely alignment issues due to design.

BodieZoffa wrote:Of those mentioned I have the Helor 106 and am 100% satisfied with everything it has to offer.

I was hoping a Helor 106 user would respond! How long is your grind time for your 19gr double? I have to make 2 back to back doubles 2 or 3 times a day.

For an end game conical grinder, up the budget a little and get either the Weber Key or Monolith MC4. But once, cry once.

Hg2 is the same as the Key but right at the top of your price point. Maybe it, or some of the other hand grinders with a stand would be a nicer experience than the Kinu M47 or Pharos that I have... for me though I've given up wanting to hand grind every day. I have a Key on order but couldn't even handle the six month wait for it while using the two hand grinders (I do 3 or 4 shots back to back every morning) so I got a Super Jolly... and now I have a used Niche coming tomorrow because I must be impatient. Will be nice to compare it to the Key but I really think the Niche is going to be 98% as good as the Key. Pay a lot more for a little nicer user experience, I guess.

So that's my rambling to say there is a level of personal preference to it, but I think a lot of diminishing returns above the Niche level, at least from what I've read. I don't think you can go wrong with what speaks to you. If what speaks to you is a $300 hand grinder you can try it for awhile and go for a Niche later and still be well under budget.