Note that the Eureka 75 and the conical are on demand grinders, not single dose. The "conversion" of these and other on-demand grinders to single dose using bellows and removing static control devices from the grind path, has advocates. But I think there are real problems with retention in the long exit paths and in excess static. If you want to single dose; buy a single dose grinder. If you like doing RDT, WDT, leveling, and getting around to tamping some time in the near future convert an on demand grinder to single dose. (Grinders with dosers have are a lot easier to convert)

jgood wrote:I was hoping a Helor 106 user would respond! How long is your grind time for your 19gr double? I have to make 2 back to back doubles 2 or 3 times a day.

I grind at a rate of 2 revolutions per second and that dose at typical fineness takes around 50 seconds. If it was a 1:1 ratio it'd be rather quick, but of course would put more strain on wrists/shoulders, which is why they incorporate the planetary gear system. Some talk about 'end game' grinders and the 106 is no doubt a top notch/lifetime grinder on every level IF you don't mind the manual approach. I strongly prefer manual grinding as it allows me to smell/feel the level of development I achieve with each batch I roast and you simply can't get that pushing buttons.

jgood wrote:I was hoping a Helor 106 user would respond! How long is your grind time for your 19gr double? I have to make 2 back to back doubles 2 or 3 times a day.

To answer your question and with some more specifics:

(Since there are newer versions of Helor 106 (smaller top cap and Gorilla Gear burrs): , to be clear my statements below are with Helor 106 with Mazzer 0186c burrs (single phase 71mm conical burr) and original with larger size top cap that houses the gear reduction mechanism.)

(1) George Howell Daterra Brazil https://store.georgehowellcoffee.com/co ... resso.html ---> 55 seconds
I am turning handle at "not crazy fast-pace but not elderly-arthritic-person-pace." Espresso made was triple ristretto (20 grams bean and 26 grams drink). With Ross Droplet Technique (RDT) there is zero retention.

(2) Dragonfly The Leam Hammer https://dragonflycoffeeroasters.com/pro ... whole-bean ---> 65 seconds
Again handle is being turned at "not crazy fast-pace but also not elderly-arthritic-person-pace." Here I am grinding very fine (slight finer than powered sugar) as espresso made was lungo (17 grams bean and 55 grams drink)

I just got light-roasted brew bean that has no business being espresso brewed (Ethiopia Yirgacheffe). But I seek a challenge so I make couple of espresso brews from each bag. In past this required very fine grind, long pre-infusions, high peak pressures, higher temperatures and lungo brew ratios. I never formally times myself but I paced a few laps around my kitchen while doing such grinds in past i.e. took at least a minute.

Please post what grinder you finally decide on.




MORE INFORMATION on Helor 106 and Orphan Espresso Pharos:
OP "jgood" mentions making six doubles per day; two at a time. I could see you being OK with Helor 106. But I can also see you thinking "this is getting old...real fast." I am not even close to being very muscular and the effort with light roast is not issue. The issue is the time as it has gear reduction. Certainly if making multiple drinks with Helor 106 for others then you will need patient guests. Shortly after getting the Cafelat Robot, I used Helor 106/Cafelat Robot (Quickmill Alexia was steamer) to make six cappuccinos (each with 20 grams dark roasted bean and 30 grams espresso). That got old quick. The patient guest were my in-laws. With Pharos V1.1, very light roast (even with it fixed with DIY Pharos dogs), I had trouble turning the handle...hence I got Helor 106.

In the cup, Helor 106 is equivalent to Kafatek Monolith Conical v3. This experienced Kafatek user agrees and posted as such in past Is the Helor 106 still the best travel hand grinder for espresso?

In my direct head to head experience (w.r.t. in-the-cup espresso):
Helor 106 is practically indistinguishable from Orphan Espresso Pharos v1.1. Helor 106 is indistinguishable from Monolith Conical v1 (test done with two other HB members).

Pharosv1.1 is very quick to grind Helor Flux (106) short review and owners thread This makes sense as it has 68mm conical burrs and no gear reduction. But the converse is: turning the handle is harder if not fixed and/or if have less muscle and bone mass. As stated above I really struggle to turn the handle with light roasted bean even with DIY Pharos dogs.

Espresso equipment come and go for various reasons (e.g. I had a Olympia Express Cremina with various mods but gifted it away). I will never part with my Helor 106. And given its built, it will outlast me, my kids and their kids. Helor 106 fits my philosophy of use : <=4 double or triple espressos per day. And like "BodieZoffa" mentioned above, I too like the process of being more in touch with the coffee beans. That being said, I know I and "BodieZoffa" are likely in the minority; when I bring the Helor 106 to Chicago-Milwaukee HB meetings, few use it. For the times I need to make larger number of consecutive espressos (e.g. I play barista for in-laws' holiday parties and make 12-24 consecutive cappuccinos/lattes/day ) I have electric grinder: Mazzer Major with SSP Red Speed burrs.


P.S. OP "jgood" mentions conical has more retention than flat burrs. IME, the opposite is the case.



EDIT at 1340 C.S.T. 11/2/2021:
Dragonfly Ethiopia Yirgacheffe https://dragonflycoffeeroasters.com/pro ... acheffe---> 80 seconds
Again handle is being turned at "not crazy fast-pace but also not elderly-arthritic-person-pace." Here I am grinding very fine (finer than above Leam Hammer bean; quite finer than powered sugar) as espresso made was lungo (17 grams bean and 60 grams drink).

MNate wrote:I have a Key on order but couldn't even handle the six month wait for it while using the two hand grinders (I do 3 or 4 shots back to back every morning) so I got a Super Jolly... and now I have a used Niche coming tomorrow because I must be inpatient. Will be nice to compare it to the Key but I really think the Niche is going to be 98% as good as the Key. Pay a lot more for a little nicer user experience, I guess.

I'm in the same boat. I have a key coming but I've been grinding with a random hand grinder since May. I'm very tempted to get a Niche but
1. I already have an end game conical coming
2. In Taiwan a Niche costs over $1400 USD, it makes no sense. I rather get a P64 as my flat burr grinder