Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally - Page 4

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
beanman
Posts: 151
Joined: 6 years ago

#31: Post by beanman »

dliebs wrote:Can you explain why you're looking to upgrade the La Spaziale? It's one I was considering but as more of an end choice selection, hoping not to need (or want) to replace it for a long time.
Upgradeitis/want something different. I now have an ECM Synchronika on order with Clive. Can I justify it? Absolutely not! Something new to play with? Yep.
Adding pre-infusion started my look to upgrade. My 2007 Vivaldi II does not have it. Chris's Coffee said my control board could most likely be re-programed for under $100. If not, a new board for ~$3-400 would get it. Nice feature of it is, the operator programs it for between 1 to 8 seconds, and it does it automatically. A con if this is when you want to change it, its button pushing to program a new time. Then pull a shot. On an E-61, its not programmed, so we can easily change the time with each shot but have to time it with a stopwatch of some kind.
If you get a Vivaldi II that is about 2010 or newer, it will have pre-infusion. The Vivaldi is a solid machine. I've done nothing but feed it water and portafilters for over 10 years. They are wider than most machines. But also not as deep. And they now have a new version of a timer, that communicates with a smart plug - and much cheaper than their original ~$200 timer. Could I use mine forever? Yes. Do I want something new? Yes.
Ignore the last word in the subject of this thread! :D

boren
Posts: 1115
Joined: 14 years ago

#32: Post by boren »

beardsicles wrote:Tbh, I don't see why you say it has to be an E61 machine. The big advantage of E61 machines is parts. But it's obsolete. Saturated groupheads are a much better design that meets your requirements. You'd be much better served (IMO) by a cheaper double-boiler saturated grouphead setup. Profitec 300, Sivlia Pro X, Lelit Elizabeth.
+1

My current machine uses an E61 grouphead and it's ok in many ways, but my next machine won't be. I simply want better temperature stability. The ones I'm considering are the Lelit Elizabeth, Breville Dual Boiler (920) and La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi II. I'm done with E61 (hey, it rhymes!)

appfrent
Posts: 181
Joined: 7 years ago

#33: Post by appfrent »

LittleCoffee wrote:. I studied general engineering and the thought of ripping apart an espresso machine
Rationally, Why should we waste so much time and money making espresso? Irrationality is all the fun here.
Where would engineering or even physics be if we were making decisions theoretically, without ever setting foot in lab? Yes, you can make testable hypotheses on the basis of prior work, buy they are worthless until proven experimentally. Here, your source of knowledge is anecdotes over internet (with or without numbers) and your outcome relies heavily on your own individual subjective experience. If you want to invoke rationality and engineering, order machine with every single design out there, make espresso with each one of them and then tear them apart to study them. You will realize that the perfect espresso machine does not exist. There probably is a perfect espresso machine for you. However, no amount of reading, talking and writing will make it reveal itself to you. Start with a simple machine like Robot and enjoy the irrational journey.
Forget four M's, four S's are more important :-)- see, sniff, sip and savor....

Sean_in_SF
Posts: 15
Joined: 15 years ago

#34: Post by Sean_in_SF »

beardsicles wrote:Tbh, I don't see why you say it has to be an E61 machine. The big advantage of E61 machines is parts. But it's obsolete. Saturated groupheads are a much better design that meets your requirements. You'd be much better served (IMO) by a cheaper double-boiler saturated grouphead setup. Profitec 300, Sivlia Pro X, Lelit Elizabeth. ...
+1 for this. But then, I chose a Profitec Pro 300 (and I was trained as an engineer).
LMWDP #214

Oskuk
Posts: 241
Joined: 13 years ago

#35: Post by Oskuk »

All we make these rationally, and the seventh one is the keeper ;-)

Caffinator
Posts: 41
Joined: 2 years ago

#36: Post by Caffinator »

Rational and hobby are about opposite to one another as anything could be.

There is nothing rational about a hobby.

A hobby is a frivolous endeavor that is the reward portion of hard work from an occupation that, for most, does not bring full interest or joy.

Is it a hobby when one analyzes price per cup over x amount of years? Or is it just an extension of their profession.

For me when it comes to my hobby. Pretty much caution is thrown to the wind. There is no ROI or break even point in a hobby. Those terms are reserved for businesses to survive and thrive.

I played golf for a very large portion of my life. Blessed with lots of friends who had private memberships. I played a lot. Always free. My biggest cost was travel and the most expensive clubs I could create. How much money did I earn playing golf as a hobby. Zero. How much did I spend per stroke over my lifetime? Much much more than any coffee set up or coffee bean available on earth.

I had so much fun playing golf. Being with my friends. Telling jokes. Having lunch and dinner. It's priceless. Literally no dollar figure can be put on it. Nor should it ever be for a hobby.

The term analysis paralysis is so common nowadays. Information overload making us scared that we're going to make a 'mistake'.

As for coffee. I am dead certain that with a little practice. I can make an amazing coffee with cheap equipment over just starting with a Synesso MVP and Ceado Hero.

The saying practice makes perfect rings true with everything we do.

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BaristaBoy E61
Posts: 3537
Joined: 9 years ago

#37: Post by BaristaBoy E61 replying to Caffinator »

Thank-you Ben for your great post.

Everything you said resonates with me!
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"