Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally - Page 3

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
beanman
Posts: 151
Joined: 6 years ago

#21: Post by beanman »

The great thing is we have lots of very nice choices at each style (dual boiler, HX, single boiler, etc).
I'm looking to upgrade also, and analysis paralysis is an easy rabbit hole to run deep into.
I talked to 2 of the bigger retailers today. In the $2700+ dual boiler selection, both said a lot of it comes down to looks and style that we want to see on the counter every morning.
Agree that mixing stainless and copper and brass is probably not the best. But it seems everyone does it (even Izzo with copper boilers and some stainless fittings)
The ECM Syncronika is most likely the easiest to remove panels. ECM, Pro 700, and Izzo Alex Duetto IV only have one solenoid.
Izzo, Quick Mill, and Lelit Bianca have heating element access and drains on the bottom. But I think the brains and relays are under the brew boiler, so a leak could ruin them.
All good considerations for longevity and DIY maintenance.
But I've had my La Spaziale V2 since 2009 (and it was used, a 2007 model), and have never needed any repairs. I think it has 3 solenoids, and has the electronic temp control and volumetric dosing which -- so some electronics that can fail. I've never had the side panels off. (knock on wood now)
With the number of machines out there, some of us will have issues. Its a mathematical probability.
So what am I going to buy? Don't know yet. ECM Syncronika and Pro 700 have well laid out internals with 2 bar steam. Quick Mill and Izzo are old, experienced companies.
But why did Izzo put the power switch by the right rear foot? I put syrup bottles beside the machine, so a switch there affects layout.

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BaristaBoy E61
Posts: 3544
Joined: 9 years ago

#22: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

beanman wrote: Izzo, Quick Mill, and Lelit Bianca have heating element access and drains on the bottom. But I think the brains and relays are under the brew boiler, so a leak could ruin them.

But why did Izzo put the power switch by the right rear foot? I put syrup bottles beside the machine, so a switch there affects layout.
The Duetto machines have their power switches on the right side and recessed below the shell cover. They will not interfere with accessory storage along that side of the machine as the switches do no protrude. I chose this machine in part due to this feature as I did not want toggle switches, that I consider ugly, mounted on the front panel with their accompanying lights that are all a cluttering distraction.

The electronics (PID, digital display, 2-SSR & 1-solenoid) in the Duetto series are mounted near the top of the machine where they are unlikely to be affected by water. The trade off is that they will be affected by heat, such as the display might loose segments of the numeric digital display.


This is just to set the record straight, not to be a special pleader for the brand.
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

beanman
Posts: 151
Joined: 6 years ago

#23: Post by beanman »

Thanks for clarifying Duetto internals layout. I interpreted a pic wrong. Just under the cup warmer, at the front edge of the steam boiler, my Vivaldi II is about 125F. Not sure if that degrades a PID display or other electronics.

For the power switch, I agree, it does not protrude beyond the side panel. But I keep 3 syrup bottles literally touching the entire right side of my machine, so I'd need to move the bottles out of the way to access the switch. I have a 5 foot top on my cabinet, and its full with drip coffee pot, milk pictures, espresso machine, syrups, grinder. Or I could move into the tech world and run the on/off power with a smart plugin on a phone app.

Again, thanks for clarifying internal component layout. Makes the forum a better place for information.

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BaristaBoy E61
Posts: 3544
Joined: 9 years ago

#24: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

beanman wrote:Or I could move into the tech world and run the on/off power with a smart plugin on a phone app.
That's what I do, machine is on a Wemo programable smart timer so I almost never touch the power switches.
Another reason that I do this that is beyond the convenience is that I'd rather replace a Wemo than replace a power switch inside an espresso machine. A power switch left permanently 'ON' is unlikely to ever burn out as the is no surge, arcing or stress from repeated manipulation.
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

gfopfdopgfj
Posts: 1
Joined: 2 years ago

#25: Post by gfopfdopgfj »

I have been making espresso for many years with a Quick Mill single boiler E61 machine circa 2007 - my dealer had to add a PID as an aftermarket device. I am now looking for a dual boiler. I really liked your thoughtful analysis.

I have come down to the same two machines. I am favoring Quick Mill Vetrano 2B because I know their machines, and they are easily serviced at home.

It's unfortunate that people who disagree do so in a disrespectful way. They probably disagree because they made different choices.

kelly1
Posts: 10
Joined: 14 years ago

#26: Post by kelly1 »

Well ,I enjoyed the read..very civilized!
I'm on my fourth machine delongie,them krups( garbage),a Silvia I still own as a backup with pix. added by myself, then a Rocket Giotto premium Plus until this past wed.!
I went with the Whole latte version of the Vetrano db with stick controls.

The new machine is definitely easy to use and repeatable,I don't switch coffees often.If it is half as reliable as the Rocket I will be happy,we have great water, so I never had scaling issues with any machine.

I looked at many of the db.machines mentioned here other than the duetto,nothing came close in price and features,so fingers crossed for the long term,I'm fairly techie so if parts are available I can repair!
I had considered Quickmill machines when I bought the Rocket so I was familiar with the brand too.
This was my result of my paralysis analysis! ,kelly

chipman
Posts: 1170
Joined: 16 years ago

#27: Post by chipman »

I didn't think the word "rational" was permitted on this site.

beardsicles
Posts: 25
Joined: 4 years ago

#28: Post by beardsicles »

Tbh, I don't see why you say it has to be an E61 machine. The big advantage of E61 machines is parts. But it's obsolete. Saturated groupheads are a much better design that meets your requirements. You'd be much better served (IMO) by a cheaper double-boiler saturated grouphead setup. Profitec 300, Sivlia Pro X, Lelit Elizabeth. But really, if we're focused solely on rational, I'm curious why you want to spend $3k on 5 drinks a week.

dliebs
Posts: 16
Joined: 2 years ago

#29: Post by dliebs »

beanman wrote: But I've had my La Spaziale V2 since 2009 (and it was used, a 2007 model), and have never needed any repairs. I think it has 3 solenoids, and has the electronic temp control and volumetric dosing which -- so some electronics that can fail
Can you explain why you're looking to upgrade the La Spaziale? It's one I was considering but as more of an end choice selection, hoping not to need (or want) to replace it for a long time.

DanoM
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11 years ago

#30: Post by DanoM »

LittleCoffee wrote:So that's it for me - the Alex Duetto IV and a flow device is my choice or as rational a choice as I think I can make for me.
If that's your choice, you've thought it out thoroughly, and you're committed to pulling quality shots I'm sure you'll make it work. Being an engineer you're likely prone to seek the details that will deliver quality in the cup.

Have fun! Remember to enjoy the journey; it's a great adventure!
LMWDP #445