Buying an espresso machine before a grinder

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
LeeD
Posts: 3
Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by LeeD »

Hi guys. I've been trying to decide on a grinder for absolutely ages. So long that I've actually gone off the idea! My problem being that I currently drink filter coffee made in a Vandola that I brought back to the U.K. from Costa Rica. I use v60 filters in it. But I want the grinder to be able to grind espresso too.
Anyway now I have the money I really want to buy an espresso machine instead and get the grinder when I save some more money up. Im currently thinking of getting the Oscar II machine from Nuova Simonelli. Or possibly one of the Lelit machines. I had been leaning towards the Lelit Kate combined grinder & espresso maker, until I was advised that combo machines were unreliable..
Soooo..what I really want to know is: if I buy the Oscar ii machine now, could I make do with pre-ground coffee from my local roastery Small Batch?

foam2
Posts: 273
Joined: 4 years ago

#2: Post by foam2 »

Personally I wouldn't go for preground coffee. It significantly loses flavor once ground so I would look for an inexpensive grinder than rely on preground. I had a breville smart grinder ($200) for several years before upgrading but I'm sure there are other good/better alternatives as well.

DeGaulle
Posts: 545
Joined: 10 years ago

#3: Post by DeGaulle »

LeeD wrote:Hi guys. I've been trying to decide on a grinder for absolutely ages. So long that I've actually gone off the idea! My problem being that I currently drink filter coffee made in a Vandola that I brought back to the U.K. from Costa Rica. I use v60 filters in it. But I want the grinder to be able to grind espresso too.
Anyway now I have the money I really want to buy an espresso machine instead and get the grinder when I save some more money up. Im currently thinking of getting the Oscar II machine from Nuova Simonelli. Or possibly one of the Lelit machines. I had been leaning towards the Lelit Kate combined grinder & espresso maker, until I was advised that combo machines were unreliable..
Soooo..what I really want to know is: if I buy the Oscar ii machine now, could I make do with pre-ground coffee from my local roastery Small Batch?
As far as I am concerned, preground + machine with non-pressurized portafilter = hopeless / waste of money

Adjusting the grind to get a good shot of espresso (rule of thumb to get in the ball park is to get an extraction time of 20-30 seconds) is THE crucial step. To get it preground from the shop at some wild-guess grind setting leaves you with no degrees of freedom other than dosing more or less coffee to try and get in the ball park. But meanwhile the coffee will already have gone stale and you are likely to get poor-tasting gushers no matter what. If you want a capable grinder that does both espresso and pour-over well, the choice is relatively limited. If you are on a budget, look into a solid hand grinder like discussed here (still expect to spend £150,- plus):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn9OuRl1F3k

or else the Niche Zero which has been the talk of the town over the past year and a half or so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOY2tHyZ4w

Such a grinder combined with almost any semi-automatic machine with a non-pressurized portafilter makes for a set that can make good espresso. The less you spend on the machine, the steeper the learning curve may be, but it is very well doable. Cheaping out or passing on a grinder altogether makes you miss one of the boundary conditions for a good shot of espresso, no matter how fancy the machine.
Bert

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Jeff
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Joined: 19 years ago

#4: Post by Jeff »

A cheap grinder will never be able to make good espresso repeatedly. Stick with filter or press-pot coffee until you can afford something proper. A good hand grinder, suitable for espresso, seems to be £150-350. I haven't used a hand grinder in a decade for espresso. With roasts having gotten much lighter in that time, it would be even more of an RSI-inducing task for 2-3 cups a morning.

baristainzmking
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#5: Post by baristainzmking »

I wouldn't get the machine first.


#1 coffee
#2 grinder
#3 machine

In that order.

Good luck!
Julia

jgood
Posts: 893
Joined: 6 years ago

#6: Post by jgood »

Get the grinder 1st -- get the one you will want once you get your espresso machine!

BuckleyT
Posts: 201
Joined: 10 years ago

#7: Post by BuckleyT »

You are getting good advice here.

To sum up: 1. Very few grinders are good at both drip brew grind and espresso grind and they are among the most expensive.
2. Preground coffee goes stale shortly after it is opened. For Ultimate Flavor, buy freshly roasted beans and use them within 2 weeks, grind your own beans and brew them within 5 minutes. Anything else is a compromise.

These constraints on quality suggest 2 courses of action: either buy a reasonable drip brew grinder and develop an appreciation for fresh, artisanal roasts while you develop grinding skills, water temperature skills (even water composition skills) and housekeeping skills (how you treat the beans after you have bought them makes a difference)* OR wait until you can buy a quality entry-level machine with a decent entry-level espresso-grade grinder. There are no shortcuts.

*Detailed discussions on each one of these topics abound on this site.
B

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Jeff
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Joined: 19 years ago

#8: Post by Jeff »

Quality, entry-level grinder and compromise, entry-level machine is much better than the reverse.

There's a great quote in entry-level equipment in the "How to select..." sticky. It's those with skills that only come with experience that can reliably compensate for entry-level flaws. By the time they have those skills, they have abandoned the entry-level gear. Yes, a barista champion with decades of experience can pull a good shot on cheap machine with a good grinder (like the Niche or better), but trying to do that as a neophyte can be a frustrating experience. Doing it with a cheap grinder is a near impossibility to do repeatedly.

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sosha
Posts: 267
Joined: 11 years ago

#9: Post by sosha »

Are you going to do mostly milk-based drinks or straight shots? Also, what's your price range?

I also believe you should get a grinder first. If you don't want to spend a lot on it, a good hand grinder can be had for around $200. Think OE Lido or Kinu Phoenix.
LMWDP #440
www.kelpfish.com

LeeD (original poster)
Posts: 3
Joined: 4 years ago

#10: Post by LeeD (original poster) »

Wow thanks for the response guys! It's clear that grinder first is the right way of going about it. I was happy to spend around £600 - 700 for an espresso machine £200-400 for a grinder. It's just I can't really justify buying both rn. I'm the only coffee drinker in the household sadly. Seemed exciting getting something like the Oscar II cos I didn't realise a heat exchanger was in my budget.
Although I tend to drink non milk based drinks when I'm out it would be awesome to be able to do cafe quality cappuccinos etc when people come round.

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