tglodjo wrote:If you've been reading on this forum or comments on WLL's videos on these machines, then everything you've read is probably just my experience I was going crazy with no one being able to confirm the issue for me. It took Jim at 1st Line contacting Bezzera directly about my issue before he was informed of a few others experiencing it--so it's not common. And you can at least rest assured that 1st Line will be testing the panels a little more extensively after my issue.

Tyler,
Does it make a very good espresso? Why don't you keep the machine and just let them replace the defective parts? Certainly the warranty timeframe should work out the bugs and even if they persist after the warranty, a good retailer will hang with you if the issues are the same as during warranty. Breville sure has with me.

I tried to find where it was I read about the display issues but could not relocate it. I've read all I could find on the machine and have watched all the videos I could find. My searches were on the Duo DE but the display is the same as yours.

Marty

Marty wrote:Does it make a very good espresso? Why don't you keep the machine and just let them replace the defective parts? Certainly the warranty timeframe should work out the bugs and even if they persist after the warranty, a good retailer will hang with you if the issues are the same as during warranty. Breville sure has with me.

It makes great espresso equal to the other DBs I've tried in this range (Mini Vivaldi II and a couple of other E61s). Can't say whether or not it makes *better* espresso than other machines at the same price point--though the programmable pre-infusion may pursuade some. The vendor is waiting for a replacement panel from Bezzera and they wanted to walk me through replacing it myself, but I prefer not to do that right after paying so much for a new machine, so the vendor offered the return option. A year or two down the road? Sure, I'd be willing to do self repair, but accepting it as is now would be like stamping my approval on a product that arrived defective. I don't doubt the vendor having my back should I keep it and run into future problems though. They've been fine to work with. My experience with the machine just has me convinced the quality control and tech isn't ready. I plan to go more analog with the Linea Mini (hopefully!) or Synchronika.

The Synchronika was my machine of choice, I was all set to buy it as soon as my BDB sold. In the meantime, the Duo DE came on the scene so I stalled my purchase until I had a chance to check it out. Thing is its so new, there's no real user experience out there. While waiting to hear back from Marcel, you posted but yours is the E61 version so is only partially the same. I just reposted my BDB and would rather wait for that to sell anyway.

Yes, the Synchronika is simpler, without all the electronics and its very well laid out on the inside, making it easy to work on when the time comes. There's no way to easily drain the boilers though and you'd have to buy a timer to plug it into if you wanted it to auto turn on in the morning. The boilers are much bigger than the Duo DE and I like the joystick controls. The only real thing that drew me to the Duo DE was that it was volumetric.

Have you considered the Izzo Alex Duetto Evo or the Quick Mill Vertrano 2B Evo?

I've learned never to be hasty when spending this much money, I've got time to wait things out.

Marty

Marty wrote:Have you considered the Izzo Alex Duetto Evo or the Quick Mill Vertrano 2B Evo?

I've considered the Vetrano 2B (and the Clive Coffee LUCCA version of it), but the Duetto Evo doesn't do it for me in terms of aesthetic. I just don't like the look. Same reason why I'm not going with a Vesuvius. Based on your past comments, it seems like AV brewing is pretty important to you, so I understand how your options are limited a bit. Are you partial to the E61 aesthetic (and the Bezzera group)? If not, I'd definitely check out the La Spaziale Vivaldis. I used a Mini Vivaldi II for about 8 years with zero issues. For me, once I decided I wouldn't be keeping the Matrix, I just can't justify getting a machine with lesser specs when the Synchronika is just a couple hundred more. This is all subjective, of course. But that 2 bar steam pressure is pretty enticing!

That said, feel free to message me with other questions if they're about different machines. I don't want to derail this thread.

tglodjo wrote:I've considered the Vetrano 2B (and the Clive Coffee LUCCA version of it), but the Duetto Evo doesn't do it for me in terms of aesthetic. I just don't like the look. Same reason why I'm not going with a Vesuvius. Based on your past comments, it seems like AV brewing is pretty important to you, so I understand how your options are limited a bit. Are you partial to the E61 aesthetic (and the Bezzera group)? If not, I'd definitely check out the La Spaziale Vivaldis.

Right, its the "after thought" upper panel on the Duetto Evo and Vesuvius that I don't like either. Sorry, I don't like the looks of the Vivaldi's, for a cafe or restaurant, ok but not for my kitchen. I wouldn't say I was partial to the look of the E61 or BZ groups but 90% of machines are that or push button volumetrics. I was going after the features that the Bezzera Duo DE had since they are very close to my BDB features and the wife and I are used to them and like the convenience they provide. I've never had an issue with the electronics on any of my BDB's (I think I've had four or five of them).

I would like to hear back from Marcel, especially now that I have learned about the display issue with your Matrix. Being that the machines are new here, I suppose the replacement parts supply has not yet been stocked. Had the issue been one where the machine was dead, having to wait for parts from Italy would do me in :-0

Well, I'm interested in knowing what you end up replacing yours with and if its the Synchronika, would be very interested in hearing your feedback. If we were closer to one another, I'd come for a visit!

Marty wrote:Well, I'm interested in knowing what you end up replacing yours with and if its the Synchronika, would be very interested in hearing your feedback. If we were closer to one another, I'd come for a visit!

Place an order for a white La Marzocco Linea Mini this morning. Now I just gotta wait the two weeks until it arrives!

Ratz, was hoping you would have bought the Synchronika Well, congrats on your new purchase, sure hope you're happy with it. I've read good reviews on that machine!

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled program - anyone out there with the Bezzera Duo DE? Or are in the process of buying one?

Marty

Hi,

I just bought a Duo DE. I've had it just over a week and here are some comments/observations.

1. Being a bit of a nerd, the LCD was very attractive to me. In the end I think this won me over. I was also considering the Profitec Pro700 and synchronika.

2. Love the wood levers and PF. Nice touch, although my wood doesn't match as well as I would like.

3. Rotary pump is a little louder than the Profitec, but much quieter than vibration pumps I have heard.

4. Steam pressure seemed really good in the shop, and up there with the Pro 700.

5. After 1 week it seems I have moisture behind the LCD. 8-(

6. Also the brew pressure doesn't seem to be working correctly. The gauge swings from 6 to 10 bar during the shot, up and back up and back. I thought this might be a transducer issue, however I'm now wondering if it is actually reading true. It seems the stream is a little inconsistent during the shot. Almost going back to a drip half way through.

7. The digital gauge is also slow. The refresh rate seems quite low. I guess it doesn't really matter, but it is far less informative than an analogue gauge would be. It's also difficult to read. A digital representation of an analogue gauge would be nicer IMO.

8. Things heat up quite quick. I think around 10 mins and boilers are up to temp. At about 15 the group head is too hot to touch. I'd be happy pulling shots at around 12 mins or so. Not sure how this compares to the e61 variant.

9. Love the volumetric buttons, however they have not always worked as expected. One day my normal shot ran for 43 seconds. I stopped it at that point. It could have gone on longer! Way more than the expected 60 or so mls. Most other times its reasonable, however shot times fluctuate between 22-30sec. Not sure if this is just my tamping, or an issue related to the possible pressure problem. I suspect the latter.

10. Cup clearance is a little lower than I would like. A few of my cups now don't fit...

11. Power saving mode leaves the LCD on full with back light. This seems a little silly, and certainly isn't going to help the life of the LCD. I end up using the manual switch, so the feature is wasted. A real pity. Might save electricity, but I don't think they thought it through.


At this point I've asked if I can return it and swap for the Pro 700. A little sad, however the issues over the first week haven't instilled confidence. Maybe I have a dud, who knows. I can only comment on my experience. But I think I'd be happier with a more manual machine.

If I didn't have the LCD and pressure issue I would be happy to keep this machine. As it is, the vendor might not let me swap it anyway, and might just choose to repair. In which case I will have to be happy with it!

Cheers
Jamie

Thumbs up!
One of the most usefull review posts for the Duo/Matrix!
Conviced me not to buy one ....

Just to add.

I just pulled a few shots with a finer grind. With 18g it took about 29 sec and gave me 42g of liquid, which was pretty much spot on the money. However I did a back flush, not sure if this matters, and it shouldn't, then pulled another shot. Shot stopped at 13 sec with about 20g of liquid. Pulled another shot and it gave me about 60g in almost 40 seconds. Pulled a third shot and got 42g out in 30 seconds.

It seems to me there is something funny going on. When it works it works really well, however occasionally it just completely messes up.