Best high-end espresso machine money can buy (For home or small café) - Page 8

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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arcus
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#71: Post by arcus »

Lapera

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baldheadracing
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#72: Post by baldheadracing replying to arcus »

I'd take a volumetric or gravimetric pump machine over a 1-group lever like the Lapera DS for "a small café" (as per the thread title).

A two-group lever would be fine for a café, but a bit much for home.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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luca
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#73: Post by luca »

This thread has the same problems as most:

1. It's not very clear from most peoples' posts whether what they are saying is based on actual experience.

2. People are asserting "better" or "good" or whatever in terms of espresso, but no one has explained what they mean by that.

Coffee is frustrating, because you don't get to just turn up the dial on all factors that are desirable. Invariably, to improve one factor, you have to compromise on another. So what "good" espresso means to anyone isn't obvious.

There are at least three different main ways that espresso could be "good":

A. The "classic" shot, where the most important things are really body and mouthfeel, acidity is the enemy and aroma is shoved out of the way for body and mouthfeel.

B. The, uhh, let's call it "specialty" shot, where the most important thing is emphasising aroma, being the most distinctive thing about coffee, and distinctiveness being the heart of "specialty" coffee. You'll usually have to accept more acidity than for a "classic" shot.

C. The "realistic" shot, where really what is happening is that you are accepting that the quality of the roasted or green coffee that you have is not very good, and the most important thing is to minimise undesirable characteristics like bitterness and aroma (because the aroma from the coffee is probably bad).

To be very blunt, category C is probably the most predominant and important, because most roasters are not very good and green coffee that has no aromas that you want to minimise is probably pretty rare. If you are drinking a blend or not paying a premium for your coffee, you are very likely in category C.

I doubt that there's one "best" machine, just like none of these types of shots are necessarily the "best". In all likelihood, it's probably different machines that are best at producing shots of those different styles.

Of course, the internet being what it is, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to assert that they drink only the finest coffee and their coffee doesn't contain any compromises; they somehow extract full aroma and have massive body and mouthfeel :roll:

And of course there are also a whole bunch of things that are important that are nothing to do with what is in the cup. One thing that is important in a "small cafe" and perhaps less important than home is user-friendliness for your baristas. If you can hire fewer staff, or less skilled and cheaper staff, that's probably a good thing, but it might run contrary to cup quality.
LMWDP #034 | 2011: Q Exam, WBrC #3, Aus Cup Tasting #1 | Insta: @lucacoffeenotes
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BaristaBoy E61

#74: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

SteveH wrote:I just found this thread and figured I'd offer my $0.02. In the past 10 years I've had a GS3 AV, Slayer, Decent, Londinium, another Decent, and now a Speedster (new version).
Is your Speedster a 2020 with the Idromatic head and if so, what's your analysis of the Idromatic performance and contribution to the cup when coupled with the double spring pre-infusion cylinder (DSPIC)?

TIA
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

SteveH
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#75: Post by SteveH replying to BaristaBoy E61 »

Post 2020 without Idro. After a lot of research it doesn't seem that Idro is really needed with the PPIC (progressive pre-infusion cylinder) and my experience backs that up. Granted, it looks cool and I'm all for an extra bell and whistle.

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arcus
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#76: Post by arcus »

baldheadracing wrote:I'd take a volumetric or gravimetric pump machine over a 1-group lever like the Lapera DS for "a small café" (as per the thread title).

A two-group lever would be fine for a café, but a bit much for home.
The thread title said home or small cafe so the Lapera is my home choice. I don't think anyone would seriously consider a single group lever as the only machine in a cafe although I'm sure many have them for speciality espresso, etc.

coyote-1

#77: Post by coyote-1 »

luckydragon wrote:"The best" is such a subjective term; although you list a whole bunch of criteria, there isn't such a thing as a single-best machine, as it depends on your use case and what criteria you prioritize.

I've heard there are reliability issues with Slayer and even moreso Modbar machines. If you get a Speedster you have really limited options for servicing, in that there's probably only going to be one distributor in the city/region you live. La Marzocco and Nuova Simonelli are a lot more ubiquitous in the cafe scene and thus you'll likely have an easier time to find parts and/or get it serviced (i.e., you could probably shop around for options).

I'd say the Speedster has the most unique design worthy of being a centrepiece, but it lacks any kind of profiling capabilities so you're paying a premium just for the looks.

As you pointed out the Decent is the most versatile machine on the market, and for me personally, probably the only upgrade option I'd consider from my Synchronika. I was initially intrigued by the Synesso ES1, but it's taken them so long to bring it to market and seems more feature-limited than the Decent, whilst likely going to cost twice as much.
Anyone making a point of purchasing "the best high-end machine money can buy" is not going to concern themselves too much with serviceability. They'll just pay a premium for the best & fastest service money can buy.

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BaristaBoy E61

#78: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

BTW: KvdW Speedster Service Manual is extremely well done. Anyone handy should be able to follow it and complete their own repairs.

There's also no crazy electronics in there either.
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"