Best high-end espresso machine money can buy (For home or small café) - Page 6

#51: Post by **JB90068** » April 29th, 2023, 9:40 am

riley wrote:I had a Speedster for 5 years or so and replaced it with a Slayer. I prefer the Slayer.

Just curious as to why?

April 29th, 2023, 2:29 pm

riley wrote:I had a Speedster for 5 years or so and replaced it with a Slayer. I prefer the Slayer.

This made me very curious. Have you tried other machines? I know the Speedster is considered very good. Did the flow profiling make a big enough difference in taste or is it about the workflow. Also, I can't seem to understand how flow profiling works. Does the pre-infusion stage allow you to produce a declining profile assuming you're brewing for light beans? As someone who likes medium roasts as well as light I wouldn't wanna look myself out to purely light roast because that's what the Slayer seems to do best.

#53: Post by **Jake_G** » April 29th, 2023, 3:12 pm

Slayer is not really a flow profiler, though they largely get credit for the concept.

Slayer has a flow profiling circuit that is in charge of the flow rate during pre-brew, which is when the paddle is moved from the far right position (off) to the center range. In this position, the water is forced to flow through the flow profiling circuit, which is a finely tuned needles valve, set to deliver a specific, but adjustable flow rate through the group, prior to building pressure.

When the paddle is swung to the left, a solenoid opens a bypass path around the needle valve, and "full" flow is possible. You can bounce back to pre-brew at any time if you like, and the pressure will decay according to whatever flow rate the puck will allow through it.

So really, the puck is doing most of the flow profiling, and a needle valve is in the circuit for pre-brew to limit the maximum flow and with it, the rate at which the pressure can climb to whatever pack pressure the puck will generate at that reduced flow rate. Grind fine enough, and the pressure will climb all the way up to the peak pressure. Grind a little coarser, and you may never get above 4 or 5 bar in pre-brew.

Cheers!

- Jake

April 29th, 2023, 3:58 pm

riley wrote:I had a Speedster for 5 years or so and replaced it with a Slayer. I prefer the Slayer.

OK, so you had a "PRE" 2020 Speedster that was made before the big design upgrade (2020), perhaps with the 'narrow neck' that might make a big difference particularly if you had or even didn't have the 'Idromatic' option.

Perhaps you might fill us in on what year, version and options your Speedster was.

If you like your Slayer more, you like your Slayer more. There's no right or wrong here but I would be interested in what your experience is and what you have to say. I hope to learn something from your input.

Thanks for posting!

#55: Post by **JohnB.** » April 29th, 2023, 4:13 pm

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:OK, so you had a "PRE" 2020 Speedster that was made before the big design upgrade (2020), perhaps with the 'narrow neck' that might make a big difference particularly if you had or even didn't have the 'Idromatic' option.

Narrow neck or wide neck makes no difference in performance. They went to the wide neck design when they planned on installing a flow meter in the Spirits neck. That never happened. Wide neck does allow for the flat jet under the 3 way valve & it does simply the Idro-Matic plumbing installation.
2020 redesign cleaned up the right side plumbing, eliminated some brass parts and freed up space on the left side and rear by switching to mini ssr units. Only performance change was increasing the size of the PPIC which eliminates any need for the Idro-Matic.

April 29th, 2023, 5:10 pm

JohnB. wrote:Only performance change was increasing the size of the PPIC which eliminates any need for the Idro-Matic.

Can the pre 2020 versions be easily upgraded to the 2020 PPIC?

April 29th, 2023, 5:37 pm

No and since I have the Idro-Matic I wouldn't want to. After going back & forth between running both and just one I've settled on running just the I-M with PPIC disconnected.

May 22nd, 2023, 11:07 pm

JohnB. wrote:Narrow neck or wide neck makes no difference in performance. They went to the wide neck design when they planned on installing a flow meter in the Spirits neck. That never happened. Wide neck does allow for the flat jet under the 3 way valve & it does simply the Idro-Matic plumbing installation.
2020 redesign cleaned up the right side plumbing, eliminated some brass parts and freed up space on the left side and rear by switching to mini ssr units. Only performance change was increasing the size of the PPIC which eliminates any need for the Idro-Matic.

What does PPIC mean? I can't find a definition on their site.

#59: Post by **salvia** » May 22nd, 2023, 11:26 pm

The Progressive Pre-Infusion Cylinder System (PPIC for short) is explained briefly in this article from Sprudge.

May 23rd, 2023, 12:32 am

That seems to be for the pre 2020 KvdW. The 2020 upgraded version it's referred to as: Dual Spring Pre-Infusion Cylinder (DSPIC). It is a similar function, different (improved) design. The PPIC is a single spring/cylinder device.

The Sprudge article seems to be referring to the 'Idro-Matic' that is mounted on top of the group. That is a completely different device that comes into play after either the PPIC or DSPIC.