Best espresso setup for a beginner - Page 3

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
mdmvrockford
Posts: 570
Joined: 14 years ago

#21: Post by mdmvrockford »

Original poster mentions drives stick and not automatic b.c. latter is not driving. I 100% agree and practice what I preach.

TL/DR: Please get a pressure gauge for lever espresso machine; especially if you are newer to espresso and to levers. It is a great learning tool and helps with consistency.

Please update us with your final decision.

Long form answer (aka Tolstoy "War and Peace" answer) :
W.r.t. pressure gauge for lever, I stongly suggest getting one (if available): e.g. Gabor has available for LaPavoni, Cremina and Streiman. Flair has one available (Gabor makes too?...too lazy to check) and Cafelat Robot has factory gauge. I know many on HB don't like car analogies. But here is one anyway:)
For cars I know, I rarely look at the tachometer (pressure gauge) for cars I own or know. The sound of engine and speed tell me engine rpm. Without looking at speedometer and going by visual cues, I am less accurate with engine rpm estimate. Well, if I hop in new-to-me-car with manual transmission, I then look at tachometer (pressure gauge) until I learn the sound of that car's engine. Why? B.c. I am not car expert like Ayrton Senna (R.I.P.).

How will you know by feel difference between 7 bar and 9 bar ? Of course, one way diameter and flow rate of the espresso mouse tail pour (from naked portafilter). My counter to that: is there a uniform size and flow rate for espresso? To that question the answer is: it depends.
That is where pressure gauge is so helpful for non-experts. For bean that I know with same grind, I rarely look at my Cremina's pressure gauge during extraction; I just keep it in my peripheral vision while focusing on flow rate (how fast demitasse fills up) and mouse tail size and blonding point. BUT if I change the grind/dose drastically or go with new bean then I certainly look at the pressure gauge AND mouse tail size and flow rate.

Senior expert HB members I know never had pressure gauge on their lever machines nor will they get one. But they are experts (Ayrton Sennas) and I am not. Hence I own a pressure gauge for my manual lever (Cremina).

For my $0.02 advice on OP question (with all criteria they mentioned and subsequently):
*used* Cremina with
(a) Gabor's pressure piston rod gauge:
It makes microfoam that can pour art with but takes ~30 sec to stream 2 fl oz microfoamed milk and
(b) Teflon gasket (boiler to grouphead) so that little overheating. This past Christmas 2019, I made 15 double espressos in a row for in-laws and only cooling needed was to lock in cold portafilter. Milk steamer was my Quickmill Alexia as it has bigger boiler (10 seconds to steam 2 fl oz microfoamed milk)

* Helor 106 (Flux).
Between this and Cremina, I have very quiet espresso prep in AM (loudest sound is initial Cremina boiler heating up estimated ~75dB at 5 feet from Cremina). Here is except of dB measurement of use with 106 /grinders/h ... ml#p646857. To grind 17 oz medium roast beans takes me 40 seconds. I do this twice in AM ('spro for me, 'cap for the Boss). Then 1-2 'spros for me rest of day. 106 (Flux) has 3:1 gear reduction so minimal effort (IMO). But Son who is stronger than me thinks Flux is a pain. Then again he dislikes all of my hand grinders. Also there is scarcity of 106 (Flux) and most suggest buying via Taobao (PITA, IMO so I suggest pouncing on quality used ones that show up on Buy/Sell forum here). Given above and if you chose against the Flux, then I'd go with Kinu M47 (hand grinder route) or Niche Zero (electric grinder route). And if you love those super light roasted beans (I do not like them but partake once a month or so), then add a used Mazzer Super Jolly with RedSpeed espresso SSP burrs (well aligned). For the price of new Niche Zero (~$700 USD?; too lazy to look) and used SJ (~$400USD) with SSP RedSpeed espresso burrs (~$200USD), you are still under price of new/used Monolith conical grinder and well under new/used Monolith Flat or FlatMax or EG-1 or EK43 or Versalab or other hyper-aligned grinders.

Yes, above machine and grinder goes above your budget. But IMO buy once, cry once. And if you don't like used Cremina and used Helor Flux then (assuming you did not damage them and did not overpay for them) you will be able to resell it for at least same as purchase price. For me (with Cremina replacement seals and routine maintenance) and the 106, I have a set up my future grand-kids can use. My other recommendations above will also last just as long except unknown if NZ will last multiple decades. But who cares, price of two brand-new NZ is still under price of Monolith grinder or two to three EG-1 or EK43 or Versalab. With setup of a Cremina and Flux (or M47 given scarcity of Flux), your espresso journey can just focus on the most important aspect: the barista and bean. And there will be consistency and ease of use.

Here is HB moderator explaining rationale: for pressure gauge for manual lever and hand grinders
pressure gauge: /levers/oly ... ml#p505685
hand grinders:/blog/bplus ... ml#p655354

Here is a novice having his eyes "opened" to what 9 bars really is (alternatively show how little they knew then about extracting espresso:( )
/levers/oly ... ml#p519438

Please update us with your final decision.
LMWDP #568

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drgary
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#22: Post by drgary »

I have La Pavonis and a Cremina and have reviewed the Flairs and the Robot. What I like about starting with a Robot is getting down to basics. There's no measuring group bell temperature or otherwise making sure the La Pavoni or Cremina is ship shape. Build quality matches the Cremina, cost is much lower, and it's direct feedback by feel of the pull. Flair Signature Pro is a competitor to the Robot that will pull doubles like the Robot. You can read the reviews to compare.

Combine this with a steamer, grinder, a gooseneck kettle, thermometer for the kettle, a knockbox and inexpensive jeweler's scale and you can learn. A later step, if wanted, could be something like a La Pavoni or Cremina closed boiler machine that steams. Espresso may not improve, but you'll have an attractive machine all in one.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

cccpu
Posts: 260
Joined: 7 years ago

#23: Post by cccpu replying to drgary »

It appears that for many users, in comparisons between the Robot and the Flair Pro 2's, the ease of workflow and better thermal management is putting the Robot out ahead in this class of brewer.

I recently temporarily owned a Flair Pro 2 and honestly was not impressed by the long and finicky prep as well as the wobbly feeling of the stand while pulling a shot... if you can stomach the slightly higher price tag of the Robot, you might be better off and happier in the long run.
LMWDP #583

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