Jeff wrote:If you were to rip my DE1 away from me, my second choice would be a LM GS3 MP with the conical valve and pressure gauge. After that it would be Bianca/Synchronika/Profitec with the flow valve.

Now that I've begun to get a handle on best practices and ideal flow rates it's been easier for me to begin to use the flow control knob more regularly and in a more repeatable way.

A More Considered Approach to E61 Flow Control

Of course being the type of person I am this better understanding has immediately caused me to think about what's next. Buying a DEPRO seems like the only logical next step. What I'm wondering Jeff is do you think there is something better in the cup to be had for someone drinking medium to medium-light coffees who currently has the ability to set a pre-infusion flow rate separately from full brew flow rate? Outside of ultra lights do you find the more advanced profiles only the Decent is capable of useful in making better coffee?

I may be mistaken but I believe the main shot profile a GS3MP offers over the standard full pressure shot is one that easily allows setting a pre-infusion position at a given flow rate and then a second full flow position while allowing you to easily back off the flow during the last part of the shot for a declining profile like a spring lever.

I've got a DE1 Pro and it's great. If it stopped working I'd switch initially to my Vesuvius which produces similar in the cup. Not surprising as I use similar Lever profiles on both. Vesuvius is a well built and specced machine and mine has been rock solid pulling about 200 shots each weekend for a number of years. If both failed then I'd go to the Londinium 1. No profiling ability but it is a lever so doesn't need any.
I've got the original L1 and I find it difficult to get the same volume out as the other two, as I need to use a lower dose due to shower screen , 16g in a 18g VST. Personally I prefer the repeatable approach to profiling of the Decent and V and have steered away from on the fly control aka Bianca but others are the opposite

Would the Dalla Corte Mina ever make your list? So few people have it but on paper it seems equal or superior to the GS3. I'd be interested to know why (other than price).

The coffees I generally pull are medium-light or light, as measured by a RoastVision colorimeter. I am using a Niche Zero. The best shots I get tend to have a moderate fill rate, a "zero-flow" hold, a moderate-rate climb to pressure, then declining pressure during the second half of pressurized extraction. I'm finding that minimizes papery flavors and astringency and brings out origin and fermentation flavors in good balance.

To be clear, I get very good shots with a "conventional" profile with sufficient "PI" and a declining, lever-like pressure profile. I just seem to get even better ones with this kind of modifications. Ask me in six months and I'll probably be using something tweaked in other ways.

I think you can get great shots with Bianca-like, manual control. For me, I prefer the repeatability of the DE1.

I'll be interested to hear how any of this may change when you get a new grinder. There's quite a bit of discussion amongst Monolith owners about how optomizing too many variables for high extraction can lead to..... well, overextraction.

The logic goes something like this. Long pre-infusion increases extraction due to finer grind/longer contact time, VST baskets increase extraction due to faster flow/finer grind, highly aligned large flat burr grinders increase extraction due to lower fines requiring finer grind due to faster flow. Put all of this together and something has to give. Some people are not pre-infusing for as long or at all. Others have swapped out the VST baskets for the E&B Superfine or EPHQ ones. I wonder if the Bloom phase will still be a benifit?

I'm seriously thinking about the Decent but also as I approach the one year mark with the Profitec 600 it feels like I'm just starting to get more out of it.

I'm interested as well! Unfortunately between COVID and a series of disasters in Texas, I've got got a bit longer to wait to learn its ways and then to take out the three sets of baskets I have for some triangle tests.

Those with more refined taste than mine and those with more rigorous, controlled testing than I have done haven't led a mass exodus from a moderate "bloom" period or from VST baskets, at least that I'm aware of. I think the original "30-second" bloom may have fallen by the wayside for many, moving to more moderate lengths, depending on grinder, bean, and roast.

^^^^^^Exactly what Jeff said ^^^^^^

This is also something I'm going to test. Previously, I was using a Niche and a 10 to 12 sec preinfusion phase. Total shot time 40 -44 secs. With the Ultra I too am preferring faster shots. Dabbled with the Allonge but am going to tweak the steps on my existing profile, reduce PI, peak pressure down 1 bar and allow a faster max flow rate. (Currently capped at 2.5ml/s)

Ultrafiche wrote:...Do you guys think an Olympia Cremina will fit the bill? I love the aesthetics and small footprint of the machine. My understanding is that you can do pre-infusion with the lever, without it having to be plumbed in (which isn't even possible to do!). Seems to check all the boxes, assuming my understanding is correct. The only drawback is that price.

I moved last year from a plumbed in LaSpaziale Dream to an Olympia Cremina. I have no regrets. I had the Spaz for 7 years - it was/is a nice machine and one can pull shots continuously all day if so desired. With the Cremina (or any similar lever), you can execute almost any profile you can think up. The Decent can do even more, but as you say, it's a different asthetic. The Cremina has good steam power, so you will be satisfied with your milk drinks. It has a small boiler so you won't be making 20 lattes in a row, but five would be ok, maybe more.

JM