I'm new to HB, but not espresso. My Silvia is 12 years old, on her 2nd boiler and 2nd pump, starting to leak, and it's time to move along. Just replaced Rocky's burrs, and grind seems pretty consistent, although clumpy. Temp surfing, bottomless PF, WDT, and other techniques from HB help me pull some really good shots on the Silvia, but looking to take it up a notch (or two). I am currently up to making 4-6 drinks everyday, including a few espressi, lattes, and macchiati for various family members. In addition to making better drinks, I need this process not to take 30 minutes.

My upgrade goals are:

- Brew temperature consistency!
- Simultaneous brew & steam
- reduce clumping with better grinder

I've considered a number of grinders (Forte, HB-1,Vario) but after watching the video below of the Baratza Sette 270, seeing the straight down path and the fluffy grind it produces, I want to roll the dice on the 270W when it comes out in July. Weight-based dosing directly into the PF sounds great! Happy to hear other suggestions, though.
I have gone back and forth among a number of machines, including:

- Breville Dual Boiler
- Profitec 300
- Alex Duetto III
- Profitec 700

I've heard the "toaster" argument on BRB, but after 12 years with Silvia it is clear (to me, at least) that the Breville's features (auto start, front fill option, swivel foot, etc.) add significant convenience. That's important in the wee small hours of the morning! I am concerned about what will happen after the 2-year warranty runs out, but maybe that will provide an opening to address some upgraditis?

The E61 machines look beautiful, but it's hard for me to tell if, say, the Profitec 700 is significantly better than Duetto III. Hoping some of you will share your experience on these DB machines.

Finally, I really want to stay <$3k for grinder and machine, unless someone can make a really compelling argument otherwise.
Thanks!

TLDR: best Sette 270W/machine combo <$3k, 4-6 drinks/day

Quickmill Anita and a Ceado E37S.

Well under total budget, you'll have enough for a few extra toys and bags of coffee. It is really hard to beat an 83mm grinder. I've had the Ceado for a couple of weeks and it has some minor quirks, but it really produces top notch grinds and it will fit in the home kitchen. It is also very quiet. Espresso is all about the grinder.

Thanks Larry! I've considered the E37S, but I don't know anyone who has the Anita. May I ask why you recommended it vs some DB machines in a similar price range?

I noticed you have a Linea Mini - how do you like it?

With your budget, I would not recommend a HX machine unless you want to spend hours flushing while guessing your brew temperature. DB are the standard, and have come a long way in a few short years. Try and find a V2B or IAD 3.0 on sale/open box etc. for $2k and spend the remaining on a grinder like the E37S, Compak E6, or Eureka Zenith 65. You could split the difference with the Pro 300 and a step up in class with the K30 or Major.

fpoulenc wrote:Thanks Larry! I've considered the E37S, but I don't know anyone who has the Anita. May I ask why you recommended it vs some DB machines in a similar price range?

I noticed you have a Linea Mini - how do you like it?

For making espresso - the grinder is more important than the machine. It would be better to split your budget 50/50 than to spend so much of it on the machine. I had an Anita (original model that has evolved since) for many years.

The combo of a great grinder and a solid HX machine will produce really good espresso drinks in your budget range.

But do not cheap out on the grinder. I think the Sette will be a very good consumer grinder - but I haven't seen one yet. The pure physics of what it is probably means it isn't going to be in the same quality range as a Ceado or Mahlkonig K30 or many other grinders. Could be the miracle of all grinders - but I'm thinking not. I had a Vario for a long time and while it is very good for the money, there are better and more consistent grinders for espresso out there.

The Linea Mini is very good indeed. Oddly enough, one of my biggest reasons to upgrade the Anita was to get a front-accessible water reservoir so I could locate it under the corner cabinets.

But FWIW, living with the HX is no big deal. A few seconds to flush an idle machine and you pull a shot. The E61 group is a lot more forgiving than the Linea. The Linea demands precision technique and it is highly reproducible. It is consistent like a race car around a complicated road track, but it is up to the driver to make it sing. One slip by the driver and the whole run is out. The Anita on the other hand, is a bit less reproducible, but is a lot easier to pull a good shot out of. It's like a production sports car around the track. In the most capable hands, it isn't as fast as a race car, but it is far more forgiving and tolerant of technique.

Whatever you pick, go with the grinder first, if you care about espresso and put your line around 50/50 budget.

nuketopia wrote:The pure physics of what it is probably means it isn't going to be in the same quality range as a Ceado or Mahlkonig K30 or many other grinders.

I understand that the Sette has burrs that are smaller and conical, but felt like the straight grind path and +/- .1g dosing would get me less clumpy and more repeatable doses. If that turns out to be true when these are released, would you still lean toward a larger burr stepless option? I understand the concept of spending enough on the grinder, but want to make sure I know what I'm getting for the extra $500 - $1000 over the Sette.

I don't think it can quite get around the laws of physics. If you look closely at some of the photos and videos, you can see grinds w/ static clinging to the underside of the chute. Per Mark Prince, originally he thought there was no static at all with and then he tried it with different beans (granted a bit darker and a bit oily) and it was a static monster. Usually the solution to static in the grinds is an anti-static screen. The anti-static screens in turn cause the grinds to clump more. Hard to get around the laws of physics, but some screens are better than others.

While the straight grind path, +/- 0.1g dosing, and low retention are nice... I would consider those secondary to the quality of the grind. Would need to wait until the Sette has been released and in more peoples hands before a real conclusion can be drawn about it.

thecatch83 wrote: Try and find a V2B or IAD 3.0 on sale/open box etc. for $2k and spend the remaining on a grinder like the E37S, Compak E6, or Eureka Zenith 65. You could split the difference with the Pro 300 and a step up in class with the K30 or Major.

The K30 and Major are not a step up in class over the E37S.

fpoulenc wrote: I understand that the Sette has burrs that are smaller and conical, but felt like the straight grind path and +/- .1g dosing would get me less clumpy and more repeatable doses. If that turns out to be true when these are released, would you still lean toward a larger burr stepless option? I understand the concept of spending enough on the grinder, but want to make sure I know what I'm getting for the extra $500 - $1000 over the Sette.

Everyone will have a slightly different list of pros/cons when it comes to grinders. Will an E37S-range grinder have a better grind quality than the Sette 270W? It's certainly possible, though they haven't been tested side-by-side, and Baratza has a history of making grinders that deliver a grind quality above what one would expect for it's burr size (see Vario).

However, even if we do say that an E37S will have better grind quality than a Sette, it's still a question you need to answer for yourself whether that modest increase in grind quality is worth the extra ~$650. Factor in the Sette 270W weight option, and likely much less grounds retention, there are pros/cons to both. You could always purchase the Sette from a vendor that offers a 30day return period, and if it doesn't meet your expectations, return it and opt for a grinder a step above. I have a Sette 270W on order, and that's what I plan to do.

brianl wrote:The K30 and Major are not a step up in class over the E37S.

I respectfully disagree....last time I checked, there aren't 40 page threads about the K30 blasting counters with coffee grinds. Ceado doesn't have the reputation and pedigree as Mahlkonig and Mazzer....sorry, that's a fact.