I have information overload paralysis... and buyer's remorse due to lack of proper initial research.

Some background... currently have the following at home:

DeLonghi ESAM3300 Magnifica Super-Automatic Espresso/Coffee Machine - I have my in-laws living with us and we just needed an automatic machine for them... when they initially moved, it was driving my wife crazy when they made coffee (milk spilled because they were forgetting to turn off the stove, stovetop espresso maker with bad seals... a mess). So at the time, we got them a fully automated machine. And this is what we use today for espresso and latte. We are on our 4th one in 18 years... Yeah, they do not last long... And, as mentioned before, we must keep it just to keep my wife calm. Those of you that are married know that happy wife=happy life.



Wife has her "quick, let me get something to drink" Keurig K550 for those times she just does not feel like using the DeLonghi. In-laws hate this one as they are used to stronger coffee. In-laws drink mostly espressos and strong lattes.

I want better espresso for me... that is the only thing that I drink. The DeLonghi is just not cutting it. Does not matter the complexity because it will be just me. There is no need for my father-in-law to mess with it.

Not doing my research well, I got a Breville The Barista Express BES870XL Espresso Machine in Stainless Steel from Bed Bad & Beyond with their 20% discount for 479.99 + tax. They were out in the store so it is on its way home in the next few days.

So what do I do AFTER buying it? I start to look at reviews, videos, and alternatives... yeah... I know... right?!

So the question is... What is the best entry level combination of an espresso machine and a separate grinder for someone like me? What is the realistic minimal budget required to get something decent? And what those combinations look like in terms of brand/models?

No manual pump machines...
No base espresso machines like the Gaggia Classic...Something along the lines, and looks, of a Rocket, Profitec, Quick Mill...
Something with an E61 group head ( I like the looks... I know that should not be a reason to get it... but I do like the looks of it, lol)

Absolutely no clue on the grinder, only know that it is even more important than the selection of the espresso machine...

And I have watched the video series for newbies here, great video by the way!, but still unsure on which one to buy that would be a long-term quality unit that would be inherited by my children when I am gone

Help!!

You're kind of all over the map there, I'm not sure I'd call the Giulia a "base" machine, I reserve that more for the Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia, etc. class of machine.

Based on what you've said though you want E61, and from the examples, a big old stainless machine. Other questions:
- Rotary or vibratory pump? (and by extension, plumbed in or water tank)
- PID control?
- Double boiler or single boiler? Or put another way, how important is steam to you?

I'm just heading out from work at the old coffee mines here so I won't be able to read/answer you until tomorrow, but some "known good" above entry level machines based on my experience:
- Quick Mill Vetrano 2B if you care about PID and double boiler and rotary pump, Quick Mill Andreja if you don't
- Rocket R58 V2 or R60 if above, Rocket Evoluzzione V2 or Rocket PID V3 if you don't
- I'm not as up on the Profitec and not as much a fan of them as compared to the above so someone else will have to recommend. The 700 seems to be the "go to" recco though.
- Slayer single group? Only $8000!

Yes I would highly recommend the Gaggia Classic as an excellent entry level machine. With a little tweaking, and a little experience, I am able to get professional quality shots out of the little $350 machine.

All the machines you're talking about are more Prosumer class. If that's what you want I don't blame you. I'd want one too if I could afford it, but for anyone looking to make great espresso at home on a budget, it's tough to beat the Gaggia classic in the bang for buck category.

As for a grinder, it sounds like you've got a pretty crowded kitchen already with a Super Auto and a Keurig, so you probably don't want a huge cafe style grinder. I think the Sette 270 seems like a very good choice for a home kitchen. I have the Breville Smart Grinder pro, and again I think it's the best bang for the buck, but had I a few more bucks, I'd probably go with something like the Sette 270, or maybe a Mazzer Mini.

Honestly the BES870XL is not a horrible choice for your circumstances. It will do what you want.You should be able to make yourself a very good cup of coffee with it, your wife may even like using it, and the grinder being integrated with the machine will at least free up a little counter space.

EDChris wrote:You're kind of all over the map there, I'm not sure I'd call the Giulia a "base" machine, I reserve that more for the Gaggia Classic...

Apologies, I meant to say Gaggia (as in the Gaggia Classic).. not Giulia... first post corrected

wachuko wrote:I have information overload paralysis... and buyer's remorse due to lack of proper initial research.

For future reference, please don't cross post your questions on HB (same question on CoffeeGeek). Why is cross-posting strongly discouraged? provides the rationale behind this policy. Moderators reserve the right to delete cross-posts. Thanks.

Understood. I tried deleting the thread on the other forum... no option available there to do so. I will ask the moderator to delete it.

I would echo what randomorbit advised. There are many benefits to the 870: heats up quickly (with a little fidgeting and water, you can have the group and portafilter fully heated and ready to go in about 5 minutes), cheap and easy to maintain, has a manually-adjustable pre-infusion feature which actually helps to make great shots, and if it ever breaks, you simply return it to the nearest BB and B for a replacement. There are many machines that cost 3 times as much as the little Breville that don't pack that many features.

I also agree that if you have the means to snag a Ceado e92 and a Rocket R60, then by all means...

I often consider upgrading my equipment, but then the question of "Will my coffee really be as much better as the money I am spending on the equipment to produce it?" pops up, and...well, let's just say that I have not upgraded yet...the Breville does what I need it to do for now...

EDChris wrote:You're kind of all over the map there, I'm not sure I'd call the Giulia a "base" machine, I reserve that more for the Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia, etc. class of machine.

Based on what you've said though you want E61, and from the examples, a big old stainless machine. Other questions:
- Rotary or vibratory pump? (and by extension, plumbed in or water tank)
- PID control?
- Double boiler or single boiler? Or put another way, how important is steam to you?

I'm just heading out from work at the old coffee mines here so I won't be able to read/answer you until tomorrow, but some "known good" above entry level machines based on my experience:
- Quick Mill Vetrano 2B if you care about PID and double boiler and rotary pump, Quick Mill Andreja if you don't
- Rocket R58 V2 or R60 if above, Rocket Evoluzzione V2 or Rocket PID V3 if you don't
- I'm not as up on the Profitec and not as much a fan of them as compared to the above so someone else will have to recommend. The 700 seems to be the "go to" recco though.
- Slayer single group? Only $8000!

I continue to read threads here and watching some of the videos.

By manual espresso machines, I meant, big lever actuated ones... not looking at those. Not looking at manual grinders either.

I am trying to find what is the least amount of budget that I would need to get something with a E61 group head.

I want to make mostly espressos. There is always the Saturday and Sunday cappuccinos that I make for the in-laws and my wife... but is just in the weekends.

I am looking for that foamy, cinnamon colored crema that I love so much. The place that I usually go during work hours has an Dalla Corte Evo2 2 GRP espresso machine. The espresso there is amazing. But that is a US$10K machine!! And no... not looking to spend that kind of money on this.


As I watch the videos and read more threads... I am arriving at the fact that what I am looking for will be around the US$2K price range... for an espresso machine and a decent grinder. But even in that range there are so many choices. And that is the problem... which one to buy??!!

I want one that I will not have to worry about having to change every year or 18 months... something that would be reliable and can be easily repaired (with available parts)... This is where I think the 870 will be an issue for me.

I get it that there is much homework still for me to do. I will continue doing some reading and looking at the many threads there on the different machines and previous similar questions asked.

Thank you all again. Thanks to Dan for the videos and useful information as well. Learning a lot!

Why not visit a retailer's showroom (provided you have one in your vicinity)? On sight you might reach a decision more easily than when you keep scouring online stores, HB Posts and videos. Seeing the equipment "in the flesh" gives you better insight in how it will blend into your kitchen.

My 2cents regarding grinders: If you don't mind manual grinding, there are some non-motorized grinders with raving reviews out there that won't break the bank and take minimum of your real estate.

Since you seem to be set on an E61 group: you might want to include a timer because of the lenhthy warm-up from cold condition.

Good suggestion. I will see if there are local stores that carry some of these brands so that I can check the machines.