About 4 years ago I bought a Smeg espresso machine, it's been fine for me but I want more. I understand it's a rebranded De'Longhi Dedica. For the grinder I'm using a DF64.

Most of the time it will be just me and my wife so I don't need a big capacity machine but I want to experiment with grind sizes and other variables. I rarely make milk drinks now with the Smeg but I might make more if I get a better machine. I think the wait with a single boiler machine will be annoying if I'm in a rush in the morning or making 2 milk drinks back to back.

I prefer dark roasts currently because I don't like sour coffee. Bitterness is not a problem for me. Do lighter roasts work with espresso machines? I tried them before with a v60 filter and didn't like the acidity.

Should I get a heat exchanger model? Should I get one with a PID? Do you guys make Americanos or Lungos with the same machine or do I need to boil water separately in a kettle? I'd prefer all in one.

My budget is about US$1600 and I'd rather not get an entry level machine only to feel the need to upgrade again a few years later.

Breville Dual Boiler.

There is not another machine in that price point with the features and capabilities of the BDB.

Read through the BDB mods and maint. thread and the BDB 5 years on thread.

There are some arguments against it, some may be valid for you. Don't fall ionto the "Disposable Appliance" thought mode with it. It is easy to maintain and. contrary to what some seem to believe, no espresso machine is maintenance free. They all require periodic service of some kind. The BDB's REQUIRED service of the steam line o-rings is easy and the seals are cheep. If you ever need to send it in for service, the process is easy and affordable, compared to getting, say a LMLM or a GS3 serviced.

I'll get off my soap box now

Thought I'd go through your post point by point so you get a detailed response:

redryder wrote: Most of the time it will be just me and my wife so I don't need a big capacity machine but I want to experiment with grind sizes and other variables. I rarely make milk drinks now with the Smeg but I might make more if I get a better machine. I think the wait with a single boiler machine will be annoying if I'm in a rush in the morning or making 2 milk drinks back to back.

If you mainly focus on milk drinks then a dual boiler would be a nice feature. 2 milk drinks back to back isn't a very high demand for nearly any machine. You'd likely steam both drinks at the same time in one large pitcher so you wouldn't have to go back and forth twice if you ended up going with a single boiler. Any more than two that require switching constantly would be a pain. If you have a budget for a dual boiler then it is the obvious choice.

I prefer dark roasts currently because I don't like sour coffee. Bitterness is not a problem for me. Do lighter roasts work with espresso machines? I tried them before with a v60 filter and didn't like the acidity.

Certainly you can get a balanced shot of light roast but it is harder and requires more features to do consistently. You'd want PID boiler control, pressure control would be nice, and some sort of preinfusion is typically needed. Flow profiling is an advanced feature some folks have great success with but you won't find it in this price range.

Should I get a heat exchanger model? Should I get one with a PID? Do you guys make Americanos or Lungos with the same machine or do I need to boil water separately in a kettle? I'd prefer all in one.

Nearly all machines provide hot water and some even let you set the temperature of the hot water (they mix cold water with boiler water.) You should certainly get one with PID in that price range. HX is perfectly capable of making great shots. They aren't as user friendly since you need to flush sometimes. I'd likely focus on dual boiler.

My budget is about US$1600 and I'd rather not get an entry level machine only to feel the need to upgrade again a few years later.

That budget can get you into a good machine but if you managed to stretch just into $2k it would open you up to some machines that you'd not feel the need to upgrade for a long time. As luvmy40 suggested the BDB meets a lot of your needs. For a bit more you can get into machines that offer a bit better build quality, aesthetics, and a slow march up in marginal improvements.

If you're going to do mostly dark roasts, you can probably get by without a lot of fancy features like preinfusion/flow control. If you think you might try medium or light roasts in the future, it's probably best to have PID control and at least one of preinfusion or flow control. I agree with luvmy40 that the breville dual boiler is tough to beat in this price range, there is no other machine with as many features for less than $2K, especially if you do the slayer mod to add flow control. That being said, I really don't like the look and feel of the machine, it seems appliance grade even if the components inside are high quality. It's also made in China instead of Italy. If these aren't dealbreakers for you, it's a steal, especially since it's widely carried by major retailers and sometimes you can score a coupon.

Other machines to consider are the Lelit Elizabeth (dual boiler) and Mara X (HX). Mara X is the only HX I'd recommend, tbh, because unlike the others it has a temp stable mode that actually measures brew temp, not just a rough guesstimate based on conversion from steam temp.

PIDs in any classic HX machine do effectively nothing to improve brew-temperature management. The only exception that I know of is the Lelit MaraX, whose PID controls the group temperature to the set point, rather than the steam boiler. If you want an E61-style machine, that is a reasonable choice.

I don't know pricing or availability in your area.

I would avoid thermoblock brewers. Thermoblock steamers with a conventional brew boiler, such as the Quick Mill Silvano, are a reasonable compromise when on a budget.

At US pricing, I think that the Breville (Sage) Dual Boiler and the Lelit Elizabeth are two machines worth considering. They are dual boiler units with a thermally managed or close-coupled group. That gives good temperature stability.

I would not use a hot water tap on a machine that taps the steam boiler for drinking. The steam boiler will accumulate the minerals left behind by making steam. With time, the flavor in there is no longer "clean" and can eventually get to rather unpleasant. That tap, for me, is mainly to periodically draw off water to keep the mineral concentration at a reasonable level for machine longevity.

Thanks all for the replies.

I prefer the looks of a traditional E61 machine rather than the Breville, and I think a double-boiler is probably overkill for me. So it's down to a single-boiler or a HX. I also like using levers and knobs rather than buttons. Last but not least, I don't have the space for a double-boiler on my small kitchen counter.

I think a single boiler with PID is probably my best bet since milk drinks are a lower priority. I expect the machine might be left idle for 3-4 hours in the morning, then turned off after lunch because family members don't wake up at the same time to make coffee. A PID sounds like a safer choice.

Is flushing necessary for a single boiler with PID?

A single-boiler with a PID can benefit from a brief flush to heat up the group a bit if it is the first shot of the session or it has been sitting a while. It's a small tweak, not at all like an HX where the flush is part of the temperature control regimen. If you didn't flush, you might be off by a degree or two, but not enough to ruin a shot.

I'd also consider the Lelit MaraX if it is available where you are. Although it is an HX design, its PID controls the group temperature. There's more information about it at Lelit MaraX Review

Does the Lelit MaraX behave like a single boiler with PID with respect to not needing to flush?

The Mara X has 2 modes - brew priority and steam priority. Steam priority works just like a traditional HX, so you'd need cooling flushes. Brew priority is the reason most people love the machine - in that mode the PID in the brew thermosiphon regulates temp to one of three temp settings lo/med/hi. IDK the exact temps but they are something like 2C increments. You don't need cooling flushes, and you'll get pretty good temp stability. The downside of brew priority over steam priority is that since there is a direct relationship between brew and steam temp, in order to keep the brew temp stable at the desired temp, the steam boiler needs to run a bit cooler than normal, so you lose a bit of steam pressure. Probably a tradeoff work making if you only make occasional milk drinks, and you can always switch over to steam priority if you really need the power.

The v2 of the MaraX does away with the traditional HX but replaces it with a steam boost. Briefly it is the coffee mode but with a stronger steam pressure after pulling a shot or activating the lever. Supposedly gives more steam power while still keeping the temp sorta kinda stable.

I used to stick to the brew mode but find the v2 steam mode more useful as I only ever pull 3 to 4 shots maximum and the missus only drink lattes. Even at four shots I cannot significantly tell the difference (if there is an increase in brew temp), but ymmv.