good evening

I'm planning to buy an espresso machine. after tons of reviews i settled on these options

1-rancilio Silvia prox
2-ECM technika v profi pid
3-profitec 500 or 600

I'm looking for a quick heat-up time (if possible). and easy to self-service because we don't have specilist service center.

please help me make up my mind on the best machine for me.

and thank you so much

What do you consider to be "fast" warm-up times?

Despite what marketing claims are made, virtually all E61 machines need 30-45 minutes before they are ready.

Are you looking for a machine for classic-style espresso, or modern espresso from light roasts?

Do you have a budget in mind?

I'm curious which machine you decided upon and how are you liking it?

mrkhaled88 wrote:easy to self-service because we don't have specialist service center.

The good news is that the ECM and Profitec's are all e61 based machines which is a type that is easy to service and doesn't have any complicated parts in it. Folks that are handy and do a little Youtubing to learn can generally work on these themselves and parts are readily available in most parts of the world.

The Rancilio and Profi 600 are both dual boiler designs which are ideal if you plan to make milk based drinks like cappuccinos, lattes, flat whites, etc... There is a small increase in complexity for the required hardware but overall these are considered more versatile and capable than a heat exchanger machine. I have had a dual boiler for the last year and a half and am buying a new one now.

This is my choice. Profi 600, classic hardware, dual boiler, and it looks great.

Whichever you decide, keep in mind that the grinder is even more important than the espresso machine so budget a good amount of money for a great grinder. A couple of suggestions are the Baratza Sette 270Wi and the Niche Zero.

Good luck and let us know what you do!

While I'm quite happy with my Profitec 500, I'd always _recommend_ the Dual Boiler 600 (without knowing more about your usage).
First of all, you won't find any other machine that is built better - although you'll find many that are inferior. I think the most common repair issues involve leaks due to plastic tubing failures and (almost?) every machine uses some plastic tubing. That said, it's _really_ hard to provide accurate statistics re: reliability because you have to factor in numbers sold. you'll always see people saying that Brevilles break early and often (hey, *I* even say that - from personal experience) however when you factor in just how many units Breville sells then it's not so apparent what the real failures-per-thousand units is.

The best you can do is to say you like the look and feel of the Profitec and you're confident that it is at least as good as anything else out there rated as a good machine.

Re Dual Boiler vs HX: if you stick to dark or medium roast then you can't convince me that you can make a better drink on a DB over a HX. Further, if you make milk drinks then "save your money" because any difference is completely covered by the milk's embrace. If you fancy making light roast espresso shots for the table then you're going to be better off with the DB. Here's the dirty secret of modern (and specifically Profitec) HX machines: a "flow restrictor" ("FR") has been added to the thermosyphon loop which has two effects (one good, one bad). The FR reduces the heating effect of the thermosyphon resulting in less need for "short cooling flushes" which Espresso Manufacturer Marketing departments seem to like. (It doesn't help the "long cooling flush" like when your machine has been idling for 45 minutes because the water in the HX tube is overheated and needs to be removed). However, the FR also reduces the machine's ability to recover heat lost from shots as quickly as without a FR. If you're pouring 1, 2 or 3 drinks then you shouldn't notice it. However, if you want to make drinks for the table you're going to have to stop and wait (10min or more) for the heat to build up again between groups or two or three drinks.

The P600 doesn't have that big a boiler so I don't know if it is capable of just going and going (maybe some owner can speak to this) but it won't get exhausted with a series of pours like a HX machine will. Oh, and you CANNOT remove the FR.

IMO there is only one "use case" scenario for the HX machine: you cannot afford the DB but... (and this is a big but!) you won't settle for a Small Dual Boiler (like the Lelit Elizabeth) because you insist on having an E61 based Flow Control facility. I won't try to explain the multitude of benefits of having Flow Control here. I'm a big advocate of it because it makes my machine soooo flexible. I came from a Breville Oracle (that broke too many times) and I had to have something that had: a) best-in-class reliability, b) fit my budget (when grinder was factored in), c) had Flow Control. I did want E61 aesthetics, but I was almost swayed to go with something like the Elizabeth (a really excellent concept of a machine) - but I didn't have a Lelit dealer in town (I insisted on something which could easily be worked on by anyone, anywhere), and I decided to stick to getting the Flow Control.

TL;DR get the Profitec P600. Awesome. If you can't afford it, decide between usage of "light roast espressos" and "medium roast and milk drinks" to go after a Small Dual Boiler or a HX with Flow Control. (pssst get the P600).

As a new owner one month in with the Profitec Pro 600, I would recommend you go for it. I am super happy with my DB. I drink a cappuccino in the morning and a double shot in the afternoon. Have been happy with my Rancilio Silvia for 18 years now, she is a classic tank of a machine, and if you temp surf, can get the temp you want. Steam is plentiful but on a single boiler you must wait for it. Now it is readily available on the dedicated boiler just waiting. I also have the flow control and it works a charm when your prep is not the best, you can slow it down when she starts to squirt, then speed it up later if need be. Trying out different flow recipes and it is reaping benefits. Never knew how much it mattered till I got it.

Thankful to have posters share their information and tips. That is what is great about forums, you find out a wealth of info you would have never found years ago.

S2