Advice for a new espresso machine, max budget $2700
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Hello all,
I've been lurking here for a while but first time posting.
I have finally graduated from my small Breville Roma espresso machine... It was a gift that served well, but it's time for an upgrade. I want to get serious about espresso making, I want to tinker, tweak and experiment in order to get that elusive perfect shot. I drink about two to three double espressos a day and only occasionally brew for friends. I stir on the light to medium roast side. Due to the amateur setup I have right now, I've been using grocery bought roasted beans but lately I started experimenting with freshly roasted beans and also roasting myself.
So first thing first: the grinder. I was advised by a barista friend on the Baratza sette 270 and I would be ready to sprung for sette 270i if someone convinced me it's worth the price.
Espresso machine: well, I thought I would know after researching but I got ever more confused!
Single vs dual boilers + HX? I don't drink lattés/cappuccinos very often so initially I thought dual boiler might be an overkill but I don't want to regret 2-3 years down the line.
E61 group? E61 needed for pre-infusion? Is E61 group the same across all machines?
PID? Does not guarantee that the temperature hitting your coffee is the one you set. Therefore, need for a grouphead thermometer aka Eric's thermometer?
With or without flow control? How much is this helping getting that elusive goosebump flavor? If the flow control is there, it seems that I can't add the grouphead thermometer which seems to be a must to properly control the temperature.
So far I have those on my list:
ECM Classika: Single boiler / E61 / PID / flow control - $1,600
Profitec Pro 500: Single boiler / E61 / PID - $1,850
Profitec Pro 700: Double boiler / E61 / PID : $2,700 - at the very top end of my budget
I would welcome any advice. Thank you in advance.
TP
I've been lurking here for a while but first time posting.
I have finally graduated from my small Breville Roma espresso machine... It was a gift that served well, but it's time for an upgrade. I want to get serious about espresso making, I want to tinker, tweak and experiment in order to get that elusive perfect shot. I drink about two to three double espressos a day and only occasionally brew for friends. I stir on the light to medium roast side. Due to the amateur setup I have right now, I've been using grocery bought roasted beans but lately I started experimenting with freshly roasted beans and also roasting myself.
So first thing first: the grinder. I was advised by a barista friend on the Baratza sette 270 and I would be ready to sprung for sette 270i if someone convinced me it's worth the price.
Espresso machine: well, I thought I would know after researching but I got ever more confused!
Single vs dual boilers + HX? I don't drink lattés/cappuccinos very often so initially I thought dual boiler might be an overkill but I don't want to regret 2-3 years down the line.
E61 group? E61 needed for pre-infusion? Is E61 group the same across all machines?
PID? Does not guarantee that the temperature hitting your coffee is the one you set. Therefore, need for a grouphead thermometer aka Eric's thermometer?
With or without flow control? How much is this helping getting that elusive goosebump flavor? If the flow control is there, it seems that I can't add the grouphead thermometer which seems to be a must to properly control the temperature.
So far I have those on my list:
ECM Classika: Single boiler / E61 / PID / flow control - $1,600
Profitec Pro 500: Single boiler / E61 / PID - $1,850
Profitec Pro 700: Double boiler / E61 / PID : $2,700 - at the very top end of my budget
I would welcome any advice. Thank you in advance.
TP
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I had several Romas way back when. The biggest change you could make would be roasting yourself. The next biggest would be to buy quality, fresh roasted beans.I have finally graduated from my small Breville Roma espresso machine... It was a gift that served well, but it's time for an upgrade. I want to get serious about espresso making, I want to tinker, tweak and experiment in order to get that elusive perfect shot. I drink about two to three double espressos a day and only occasionally brew for friends. I stir on the light to medium roast side. Due to the amateur setup I have right now, I've been using grocery bought roasted beans but lately I started experimenting with freshly roasted beans and also roasting myself.
There's nothing wrong with the Sette, given its price and the good service from Baratza. It isn't all that robust, but parts are easily obtainable and DIY repair after the warranty is easy. The choice between the 7-270 and the 7-270Wi boils down to workflow. The grind is the same. Only you can decide if grinding a weighed dose right into the PF is worth the extra cost.So first thing first: the grinder. I was advised by a barista friend on the Baratza sette 270 and I would be ready to sprung for sette 270i if someone convinced me it's worth the price.
Given your stated budget and the need for sometimes doing milk drinks, I would not go with an SBDU (single boiler dual use) machine. If you only did shots, then this would be a money-saving move. Between an HX and a DB is a debatable issue. If you want to mess around with flushing to the right temperature and changing that temperature often (for different taste and different beans), then you're an HX guy (you don't need a PID but it wouldn't hurt and is the trend). If you'd rather set some parameters then push a button (or lift a lever) to get your coffee and have the steam just right, then a DB would be better. If you're not adverse to Breville, then their DB would be a good choice. BTW, my biased opinion is that the Roma and the DB are the best machines they make, both for different reasons.Single vs dual boilers + HX? I don't drink lattés/cappuccinos very often so initially I thought dual boiler might be an overkill but I don't want to regret 2-3 years down the line.
Stock e61 groups have inbuilt preinfusion and a middle position of the lever which can also be used to pre-infuse manually unless they've been modified. There used to be some pushbutton e61s around that don't have a middle position. The Bianca is an e61 with flow control and no e61 preinfusion (but I think it has pump preinfusion). If you add on a flow control kit, then you get to decide if you want to keep the inbuilt preinfusion or change out the spring to delete it. If you get the machine converted from a dealer, you may or may not get the original spring and/or original mushroom, both of which are somewhat useful; be sure to check!E61 group? E61 needed for pre-infusion? Is E61 group the same across all machines?
In an HX a PID does very little that the pressurestat does not do; so you can go either way. IMHO, a group head thermometer (such as the EricS) in an HX is a must. In a DB, the brew temperature is controlled by the brew boiler temperature; DBs usually have PIDs these days.PID? Does not guarantee that the temperature hitting your coffee is the one you set. Therefore, need for a grouphead thermometer aka Eric's thermometer?
Flow control isn't necessary, but it's handy and fun to have. If fitted, you want the brew pressure gauge and you're right about not being able to have it and a thermometer on an HX e61. On an HX you need the thermometer. On a DB with flow control you need the brew pressure gauge.With or without flow control? How much is this helping getting that elusive goosebump flavor? If the flow control is there, it seems that I can't add the grouphead thermometer which seems to be a must to properly control the temperature.
I've no comment on your listed machines. They're all quality products for what they are. You need to read a bunch (look at the tutorials and reviews here on H-B) then decide on SBDU, HC or DB at least. Then choose your machine.
BTW, back on the subject of grinders, your choice is a hopper grinder. You might consider a single dose grinder such as the Niche Zero, which at the moment is all the rage. Of course, if you decide you want to dose by weight right into the PF, then the Sette is really the only game in town at any reasonable price.
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Each one you mentioned falls into a different type of boiler, single boiler, HX boiler and Double boiler. I think the ECM classika is a single boiler machine were you have you cannot brew and steam at the same time and doing back to back lattes will be a pain. If you only drink espresso then it works well but for milk drinks, maybe if its 1-2 max. The profitecs are nice units, the double boiler (700) is obviously better but the 500 is a heat exchanger boiler unit and that works well too.
I agree with the above post, on a HX boiler machine with e61 the best item to have is a grouphead thermometer, eric sells them and another company called coffee sensor.
I agree with the above post, on a HX boiler machine with e61 the best item to have is a grouphead thermometer, eric sells them and another company called coffee sensor.
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I would buy once and go with the Profitec Pro 700. Rotary pump, ability to be use from tank or connected, PID, dual stainless steel boilers, etc.
Trust me, you want flow control...that means, get a machine with PID...
Sette is loud but decent grinder.... unless you go for what a lot of folks have been getting (but it is single dosing): Niche
Most other grinders better than those would be a lot more... Eureka has some, the Eureka Mignon Specialita has been mentioned often here, but do not know enough about those
Trust me, you want flow control...that means, get a machine with PID...
Sette is loud but decent grinder.... unless you go for what a lot of folks have been getting (but it is single dosing): Niche
Most other grinders better than those would be a lot more... Eureka has some, the Eureka Mignon Specialita has been mentioned often here, but do not know enough about those
Searching for that perfect espresso!
Wachuko - LMWDP #654
Wachuko - LMWDP #654
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Thank you all for very informative posts. I agree with the general idea that, perhaps, I should invest in a dual boiler type of machine. This eliminates the need for headgroup thermometer, flushing adjustments and allows me the possibility to make lattés. At this stage, I can push the budget a few hundreds up and upgrade once and for all.
I am not big fan of Breville at this stage, so my thoughts are on ECM Synchronika or Profitec Pro 700; will also look for similar models.
Thank you all
I am not big fan of Breville at this stage, so my thoughts are on ECM Synchronika or Profitec Pro 700; will also look for similar models.
Thank you all
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Yes, Bezzera Duo would make the cut. I don't know how much I like the touch screen, but it's not a deal breaker. I see that Bezzera duo has two PIDs, one for each boiler and I am not sure if this is the case for other dual boiler machines. How do you adjust temperature in both boilers with a single PID?
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The screen cycles between each boiler. Looks at a few of the videos from Whole Latte Love. They show the PID and the temperature readings.
Searching for that perfect espresso!
Wachuko - LMWDP #654
Wachuko - LMWDP #654
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Yes, will do my DD. This was very helpful, thank you all.
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I bought the Bezzero Duo (w/ a Mazzer Mini) and it should be delivered soon. My first machine so I am sure I overdid it but let's see how the journey goes Let me know if you'd like me to share any pics/videos etc.