Advice for new espresso machine and grinder, budget around $2300

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Nas
Posts: 9
Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by Nas »

Hi,

I posted earlier the question about advice for buying a niche zero or a Eureka Mignon Specialita (as a replacement for a Mazzer Macap M4), which kind of ended up in the favor of the Eureka. My Expobar Brewtus IVR (plumbing connection) is gone for maintenance and it seems the boiler is leaking and since it's around 10 years old, it's the question if it's worth the investment to repair it (some years ago, the pump was defect).

So now I'm quite likely to buy a (new) espresso machine, but I doubt about which one. The service-mechanic told me that Expobar new machines are made with plug-in fittings and are breaking down a lot, since they changed factory. The choice of Expobar was mainly due to the dual boiler and I could get it quite cheap second hand, but now I want to opt for a new machine and properly maintain it to have a smaller chance of failures in the future.

I'd like the idea of dual boiler, although it lessens options and is making everything more expensive and now I'm not per se convinced if it's worthwhile. So HX can also be an option. It has to fit underneath the kitchen cabinets, so height is max 40cm. The Brewtus was a bit higher, but I replaced the feet with semi round head screws.

How do I drink my coffee? I normally start each day with a double espresso with my breakfast and since I can't handle caffeine very well, I only drink decaf, mainly Illy (~>95%). Cappuccinos are made from time to time, my girlfriends likes them (unfortunately, the Brewtus wasn't too good with steaming) and sometimes just an americano as regular coffee.

So normally 15~20 (single) cups are being shot each week. I didn't like the Brewtus for the lack of steam capacity, I liked it for the stable temp (I once changed the temp one degree Celsius, didn't really notice much of a difference in taste. I liked it for the fast heatup: 5~10 minutes I could make espresso (slow heatup >15 minutes would be a no go for me). My girlfriend also does need to make an espresso, coffee or cappuccino from time to time (that was also a factor the easier to explain dual boiler), but I think with just an extra flush before the shot, HX shouldn't be too much of an issue for her.

The Brewtus was attached to the water line, with a filter, I'd like to keep that (also for the hole I drilled for it in the kitchen counter). That also is more of a precondition, since the machine is standing beneath a kitchen cabinet, so no option to vertically take out a water container. I also like the rotary pump better than the vibration pump, but if it's a matter of +$200, I'll likely take the vibration pump.

So based on this, what would be a good option? Price-wise, for the espresso machine the budget is max ~$2.500 (but I would prefer to have it <$1.500). For the grinder, let's say <$800. I'm from the Netherlands, so prices can be a bit different here.

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luvmy40
Posts: 1143
Joined: 4 years ago

#2: Post by luvmy40 »

I'm sure everyone knows what I'm going to say :D

Breville Dual Boiler!

Front fill so the cabinets are not an issue but you can(I did) install a float valve to keep the reservoir at 3/4 full level from your filtered line. Works like a charm and the float valves are cheap on Amazon as are the reservoir tanks from Breville if you want to revert to stock so as to be able to take the machine on the road to party or get together.

Easily maintained and well supported by Breville.

Packs a lot of features into a small(ish) machine and is easily converted to slay the Slayer capabilities.

Unsurpassed dual PID temperature control.

very good steaming capability.

I'll get of my soap box now. :oops:

blondica73
Supporter ❤
Posts: 851
Joined: 7 years ago

#3: Post by blondica73 »

For the grinder, you cannot go wrong with a Niche Zero. Use the rest to buy a Spaziale Mini Vivaldi.

Nas (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 4 years ago

#4: Post by Nas (original poster) »

@luvmy40:
I read about the BDB, but I thought it was not available in the Netherlands. Now I see it is, so that's good news.
I'll dive a bit more into it to see the pro's and cons. I also have to find out if the machine can be serviced by someone. The one I go to know, doesn't sell it, so I can imagine they won't service the machine, either.

@Blondica73:
Is the Niche Zero not overkill, since I mainly/only drink Illy? That's why the Eureka was favored more, plus it has a hopper, which is easier.
For the Spaziale, seems like a good choice, you think it'll perform better compared to the Breville (I'll also check performance myself, but I'm curious why you would recommend this (over the Breville))?

DaveB
Posts: 955
Joined: 6 years ago

#5: Post by DaveB »

Nas wrote:@luvmy40:
I read about the BDB, but I thought it was not available in the Netherlands. Now I see it is, so that's good news.
I'll dive a bit more into it to see the pro's and cons.
I'll post this link yet again, as it's very relevant to you. I temporarily used a Expobar from 2008 almost identical to yours:

Upgrade from Breville Dual Boiler ??
I also have to find out if the machine can be serviced by someone. ?
That someone could be you! :D The only maintenance stuff you would likely have to do at some point would be replacing a boiler seal, and perhaps flipping the teflon seals in the steam valve - as has been well-documented on this forum.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

cccpu
Posts: 260
Joined: 7 years ago

#6: Post by cccpu »

And thus, the gospel of the BDB spread forth across the face of the earth...
LMWDP #583

blondica73
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#7: Post by blondica73 »

Nas wrote:@luvmy40:

@Blondica73:
Is the Niche Zero not overkill, since I mainly/only drink Illy? That's why the Eureka was favored more, plus it has a hopper, which is easier.
For the Spaziale, seems like a good choice, you think it'll perform better compared to the Breville (I'll also check performance myself, but I'm curious why you would recommend this (over the Breville))?
I've had my La Spaziale for almost 7 years and it is a great machine. It has built-in PID and I was impressed with its performance. I'm not very familiar with the Breville, therefore I cannot speak to its performance.

The Niche Zero is a great grinder and if you ever move on from Illy to freshly roasted coffee you would not need to upgrade. I've had the NZ for almost a year, I can switch between coffees easily.

But like everyone else, I'm biased toward the "toys" i bought.

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slipchuck
Posts: 1485
Joined: 7 years ago

#8: Post by slipchuck »

Have you considered getting your boiler soldered?
There's no reason why you can't get another 10 years out of your machine



Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

millmountain
Posts: 203
Joined: 4 years ago

#9: Post by millmountain »

Nas wrote:Is the Niche Zero not overkill, since I mainly/only drink Illy? That's why the Eureka was favored more, plus it has a hopper, which is easier. For the Spaziale, seems like a good choice, you think it'll perform better compared to the Breville (I'll also check performance myself, but I'm curious why you would recommend this (over the Breville))?
Do yourself a favor and never get fresh-roasted decaf. If you discover those flavors and mouthfeel, it will ruin Illy coffee for you forever. Since you're using old coffee (packaged Illy), it's basically like this: you don't have to worry much about the performance of the grinder, much less the coffee machine.
cccpu wrote:And thus, the gospel of the BDB spread forth across the face of the earth...
:lol:

I would agree about the BDB. It steams well, you can use it in a simple or complicated way, it will give you quality limited only by your beans and skills, heats up fast, and fits under your cabinets. Vibration pump should be no issue. This is great bang for your buck.

You might also look into the MaraX, an HX machine with which you don't have to fiddle with flushing for temp control. Similar pricing, fits under cabinets, steams well, and I think the heat up time is reasonable.

Just stay away from that fresh roast, my friend. . . :wink:

Nas (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 4 years ago

#10: Post by Nas (original poster) »

slipchuck wrote:Have you considered getting your boiler soldered?
There's no reason why you can't get another 10 years out of your machine

Randy
Yes, I did. It'll cost me around €500 (~$550) for the maintenance, heater upgrade and gasket fix. The issue is gaskets are coming out and water had already leaked and dried up. A couple of years ago, I had my pump replaced, since it was broken. I've bought the Brewtus IV R with the Macap M4 combined, secondhand. I have to be honest I haven't paid much attention to descaling (although I have an inline solution, don't know when I had to replace it) and maintenance: this is the second time I'm doing (big) maintenance in about 5 years. So I'm having a second hand machine (with unknown exact condition, although I expect it to be ok), which I maybe did not maintain very well and has a second costly repair.
So I can choose to do a €500 gamble, with another failure lurking to be waked up in 2 years or I can buy a new solution, which has more certainty to no descaling issues and maintain it properly from the beginning, to prevent any issues.
Since I'm more fond of the idea to have control over the situation, I think I'll likely go for the new option.
millmountain wrote:Do yourself a favor and never get fresh-roasted decaf.
...
I would agree about the BDB. It steams well, you can use it in a simple or complicated way, it will give you quality limited only by your beans and skills, heats up fast, and fits under your cabinets. Vibration pump should be no issue. This is great bang for your buck.

You might also look into the MaraX, an HX machine with which you don't have to fiddle with flushing for temp control. Similar pricing, fits under cabinets, steams well, and I think the heat up time is reasonable.
Regarding the beans: I've had some freshly roasted beans in the past, from a local company that roasts their beans. There was difference in taste, a bit better, but no wow. In their café the coffee also tasted a bit better compared to home, but no big difference.
The only time I experienced a wow-ish factor, was in Italy, in Turin. In Caffe Torino on the San Carlo square they served a really good decaf. Luckily they did, since it was expensive.

About the MaraX, I'm not convinced it suits my needs. If I look the video in the review (3:20), it says it takes 25 minutes to heat up. And that's really too much. I don't know if you knew it or had taken into account.

Then about the grinder ... I'm now a bit confused. Earlier I was convinced to buy the Eureka Mignon, since it would better suit my needs. I like the idea of the hopper on top of it, since my girlfriend also should be able to use it (easy), else I would need to weigh portions of coffee each time and store them separately, so my girlfriend can easily pick a dose to grind it. If it would give better coffee (even with the Illy decaf I normally drink), that's kind of ok, but it looked like people were convinced about it wouldn't really matter and then the Eureka would better suit my needs, due to the hopper.

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