PRIMER: Apologies if this has been covered at length and I missed it.

THE SITUATION: I want to get as close to real espresso at home as my budget allows. At the advice of this forum, I've spent a good chunk of my budget on the grinder (found a Mazzer SJ *new* for $550 w/s+h). FYI, Chris' Coffee has a Mothers Day special right now thru 5/15/16 for the Mazzer mini doser new for $485 (wish I would have seen before my purchase).

Any who, now I need the best possible Espresso Machine, and, unless I'm told it is a terrible idea, I'd like to take the route of buying a good broken machine and repairing it. I've rebuilt a commercial machine before from the ground up (frame rebuild, pump rebuilt, completely disassembled and cleaned all piping, heating element changed, etc.). I did this because I am a product designer and want to design for the espresso world. I would like to make an affordable home roaster, and a truly affordable well-built espresso machine. In order to do this, I need to get serious about making espresso, and better coffee in general at home. Are there any suggestions for machines I could get that need some repair whose parts are pretty available? I almost picked up a broken ECM Giotto for around $450, but realized it was local pickup only and about 1000 miles away. Would that have been a good deal?

SUMMARY: anyone with advice or experience with buying good broken machines and fixing them would be greatly appreciated. I'd basically like to get into the E61 group range of $1000-2000 (or be told that like the Silvia, the E61 is no longer cool, or that there are other good broken options), for around $600 with parts and my free labor. It is more important that I get into the class above Silvia, than staying strictly at $600. I'm also not interested in the Breville 920 based on aesthetics, brand, and internal complexity). I'd like a solid, easy to repair, proper machine, with the hopes that I can save a ton of money by buying a "broken" one and fixing it

As always, thanks for the wealth of knowledge

My initial take would be an E61 HX but it really comes down to seeing what the espresso gods offer up if you stay vigilant. If you are open to levers there are plenty of vintage machines worth restoring.

Maybe buy a working la Pavoni europiccola second hand for half your budget. Replace the seals and enjoy great espresso.
Remaining budget to be spend on water treatment, a fancy tamper, 1hole steamtip, dow111 and whatever you news to keep going for years.

Buying a broken machine is often a poorly maintained machine and unless you can buy parts for wholesale rather then retail prices costs are really going to add up.

nicolatesla02 wrote:...It is more important that I get into the class above Silvia, than staying strictly at $600...

Since you say you're open to increasing your budget to jump the Silvia class, why not increase your budget and look for a good open box/buyer's remorse deal. Reputable vendors constantly have a handful of these deals. If you wait for the right machine, you'll have an essentially brand new machine at a discount. And you'll have their warranty and technical support if anything goes wrong.

Used CAN work out. But it really depends on what you find and how much it will cost to fix. And how handy you are to keep repair costs down.

drgary wrote:My initial take would be an E61 HX but it really comes down to seeing what the espresso gods offer up if you stay vigilant. If you are open to levers there are plenty of vintage machines worth restoring.

Any specific brand/model suggestions for the E61 HX's?

I'm open to levers, but through reading this site, I feel as though maybe a pump driven is a more repeatable/stable/beginner friendly route? <-- Sorry if this rehashes an old, and worn out debate

Beaniac wrote:Maybe buy a working la Pavoni europiccola second hand for half your budget. Replace the seals and enjoy great espresso.
Remaining budget to be spend on water treatment, a fancy tamper, 1hole steamtip, Dow 111 and whatever you news to keep going for years.

Buying a broken machine is often a poorly maintained machine and unless you can buy parts for wholesale rather then retail prices costs are really going to add up.

Ooooo, okay, you are kind of selling me on the lever machine with water treatment idea + other goodies. Can I get a great repeatable shot on lever?


Also, the attached images are the internal state of the machine I fixed, before and after repair. I think I could handle about anything (no universe, this is not a request for a huge challenge), but at this point, if a lever machine can be on the level of the $1K-2K E61's and the like, I would gladly go that route and not go through the torment of rebuilding a machine again



Before


After

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:Since you say you're open to increasing your budget to jump the Silvia class, why not increase your budget and look for a good open box/buyer's remorse deal. Reputable vendors constantly have a handful of these deals. If you wait for the right machine, you'll have an essentially brand new machine at a discount. And you'll have their warranty and technical support if anything goes wrong.

Used CAN work out. But it really depends on what you find and how much it will cost to fix. And how handy you are to keep repair costs down.

I like the buyers remorse/ open box/ refurb route, and I've looked at everything currently on offer from Seattle Coffee Gear, Whole Latte Love, Chris' Coffee, and eBay (are there other retailers I should know about?) but I think I could save a lot more by getting a broken machine and repairing myself...it's a gamble of course. Worst case Is I end up getting close to retail cost, but have a machine I know inside and out

I love the advice from everyone so far, a lot I haven't thought about!

look at ebay / "broken espresso machines" , you will find a not working ECM GIOTO [ E61-HX] , $500 or best offer ; looks good / 2 PF's

nicolatesla02 wrote:I like the buyers remorse/ open box/ refurb route, and I've looked at everything currently on offer from Seattle Coffee Gear, Whole Latte Love, Chris' Coffee, and eBay (are there other retailers I should know about?) but I think I could save a lot more by getting a broken machine and repairing myself...it's a gamble of course. Worst case Is I end up getting close to retail cost, but have a machine I know inside and out

I love the advice from everyone so far, a lot I haven't thought about!

Well, after seeing your restoration pic, it looks like you're more than capable of DIY.

But if you go the retailer route, there's also 1st Line Equipment you can add to your list. I'm in Canada, so I haven't ordered from them. But they've been around forever and many forum members can vouch for them.

Awesome, I'll check out 1st line right now. I hope you aren't close to the wild fire. I know it's a big country, but it's a huge fire.

I've been pointed in the direction of "eBay.it" as well for more options. Right now I'm deciding between a broken Rocket Cellini, and a used/needs maintenance La Pavoni professional or pre-2000 Europiccola. Hoping more things pop up.

Thanks again, Keep the advice rolling