48mm conical burrs few electric grinders?

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Kaffee Bitte

#1: Post by Kaffee Bitte »

I have been thinking of adding a conical to my kit but not wanting the huge and heavy 63mm plus burrs. Well honestly I very much would like one, but space weight and expense pretty much knock them off the list. I know the 38mm burrs are common but it seems the 48mm are only on two electric grinders that I can find, Bezzera bb005 or lagom mini, otherwise my options are hand grinders. I don't single dose so Bezzera is most likely going to win out though the lagom is at least a contender with it's burr options. I have been wandering through various grinder manufacturers sites trying to stumble on another option but big nope so far. I know there were others in the past but I assume some went the way of the dodo.
Having used a few 38s, I know they won't be quite equal to my flat, nor near equal in build quality. 48mm are similar to 64 flats in terms of grind zone so seem perfect for me as an upgrade. Stepless is what I want but if another option exists in stepped I would consider it.

Not at all interested in a niche zero. I am sure it's awesome for those who single dose, but it would not work for me.
Lynn G.
LMWDP # 110
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Jeff
Team HB

#2: Post by Jeff »

The Lagom Mini Moonshine on my counter next to the Bentwood isn't going anywhere. It is closer in rendering espresso to the Bentwood or 64 MP / 98 HU than to a classic conical or most flats. My preference is medium-light and lighter (Coffee Collective and Manhattan open right now) and a high-clarity espresso. My filter skills aren't good enough to comment on usage there.

My only hesitation on recommending it is that there have been concerns around longevity with the early production units when using beans lighter than typical US "light". The power supply has been upgraded as well as the gearhead motor. Option-O seems to be handling the situation well.

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another_jim
Team HB

#3: Post by another_jim »

The classic 48 conical was made by Trespade and was used by Lux, Pavoni, Ascaso, Bezzera and many other home espresso makers. It makes very good shots, up there with standard 64mm flats, and better than most 50 to 55mm ones. The downside is that it uses plastic gears, a 150 watt motor, and is very, very loud. Also, if there's a stone in among the beans, and you can kiss it goodbye, since the gears break. I've had three of them over the years, and have fond memoires of them; but I would not buy one again.

In my comparisons, I found the Vario with the ceramic burrs to be equally good, and much more civilized. The Sette produces fuzzier and softer tasting shots and is equally loud; but has a huge sweet spot, so is ridiculously easy to dial in. According to reports, the DF64 and all the other single dosing Chinese grinders sold on Alibaba seem to be hit or miss in regard to alignment, but you do get to chose from the wide selection of 64mm flat burr options. Used Jollys are solid in terms of alignment and operation, but are large and fairly klutzy to use in the home.
Jim Schulman

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baldheadracing
Team HB

#4: Post by baldheadracing »

I don't know if I would consider a BB005 an upgrade over a 58mm flat Macap.

If at all possible, I would recommend hearing the BB005 in person before deciding.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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Kaffee Bitte (original poster)

#5: Post by Kaffee Bitte (original poster) replying to baldheadracing »

In terms of build quality, no definitely not. My Macap is a tank and perfectly functioning 15 plus years now, it is here to stay, bought for life most likely. Grind quality probably close to equal, though fluffier for conical. Really it the stepless adjustment that I view as the upgrade. The total size and weight is about right too. If I added a Macap M7 or a Kony onto my island i would need a second island. Don't think I haven't thought about it! There's an M7 calling me from buy sell. Lol.

This future conical will be a paternal twin with my Macap. Flats are good but I want a conical option as well.
Lynn G.
LMWDP # 110
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Kaffee Bitte (original poster)

#6: Post by Kaffee Bitte (original poster) »

another_jim wrote:The classic 48 conical was made by Trespade and was used by Lux, Pavoni, Ascaso, Bezzera and many other home espresso makers. It makes very good shots, up there with standard 64mm flats, and better than most 50 to 55mm ones. The downside is that it uses plastic gears, a 150 watt motor, and is very, very loud. Also, if there's a stone in among the beans, and you can kiss it goodbye, since the gears break. I've had three of them over the years, and have fond memoires of them; but I would not buy one again
Hmm. Maybe I am just confused about conical sizes. 48mm is outside diameter. So 38mm and 48mm conicals are the same burrs just different manufacturers use inner others outer? Pavoni kube is stated as 38...
Lynn G.
LMWDP # 110
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baldheadracing
Team HB

#7: Post by baldheadracing »

Just in case you didn't know, depending on year of manufacture, some models of Macap stepped grinders are fairly easy to convert to stepless by changing the plastic grind adjustment wheel to a wheel with teeth, and adding the stepless adjuster. Here's an example: Switching Macap M4 from stepped to stepless - DONE!

... and I agree, Macaps are built like tanks. FWIW, my Elektra(Macap) MX doesn't look that imposing after I put a Torr Toys 300g hopper on it.

For conical burrs, the nominal size is the outer diameter of the mount. Italmill used to have drawings of all their burrs, but they changed their website. The 48mm in the BB005 looks like a typical Italmill conical, and not the 38mm TreSpade design. The 47mm/48mm Italmill (and Etzinger) are slightly taller and wider than the 38mm Italmill. The main difference is that the bigger burr is more aggressive (grinds faster). I don't remember noticing any difference in taste (medium roasts and darker). If I remember correctly, the 38mm TreSpade is in between the 47mm/48mm Italmill and the 38mm Italmill in actual burr size. However, they are all pretty close to each other. I've used the 47mm/48mm Italmill in my motorized Lido2, and back then I found 68mm/71mm conicals were always better for medium-roast and darker espresso, but there were a lot of other factors besides burrs, such as the machine (Silvia) and prep (me).
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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another_jim
Team HB

#8: Post by another_jim »

Given Craig's post, I may have been conflating all these burrs. It was my impression that the original Trespade manufactured Lux was a 48mm grinder. If I have been using different sizes all these years, I agree with Craig, they are very much the same in use, and not as good as the larger conicals.

If you want a compact single dosing conical grinder, the Niche Zero is the standout choice at a sub 1K price. The 63mm Kony burr it uses is as good as the 68/71mm burrs by Mazzer or Italmill.
Jim Schulman

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Kaffee Bitte (original poster)

#9: Post by Kaffee Bitte (original poster) »

baldheadracing wrote:Just in case you didn't know, depending on year of manufacture, some models of Macap stepped grinders are fairly easy to convert to stepless by changing the plastic grind adjustment wheel to a wheel with teeth, and adding the stepless adjuster. Here's an example: Switching Macap M4 from stepped to stepless - DONE!

... and I agree, Macaps are built like tanks. FWIW, my Elektra(Macap) MX doesn't look that imposing after I put a Torr Toys 300g hopper on it.
I wish my Mc4 we're one of the easy converts. It is not though. But really am okay with it remaining stepped as long as I can have a second grinder that is stepless.

MX is the 75mm flat right? Was seriously considering one as well when I saw a deal a while ago.
Lynn G.
LMWDP # 110
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Kaffee Bitte (original poster)

#10: Post by Kaffee Bitte (original poster) »

Thanks for the burr set clarification! Manufacturers aren't so quick to give up.

As far as the bb005, I have been reading some German forums with more info on it. And watched some sound comparison videos of it and other similar Conicals. Seemed quieter than baratza grinders to me. Honestly I don't find the Macap to be all that quiet. It's a conversation stopper already. What's one other loud grinder? But yeah don't really want a screamer that wakes the neighborhood
Lynn G.
LMWDP # 110
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