Disclaimer: This is going to be a short review , the type of a review that I and my friends always wanted to see - but we never could. .. So I am sorry about the form etc - but I am sure that at least some ppl will find it enlightening.

OK... background: we were looking for a non-professional - but very forgiving- espresso machine that will meet our needs.... one that an Engineer like me will find good enough.. and that my wife will find easy to use and maintain... that was the goal ...

background: used the Silvia for years - loved it, wife hated it (kind of messy and not easy to get good espresso from it).
Had the Expobar Office lever for short while: did not like the quality/reliability/finish of the sample I had. but it was ergonomically correct.

Now - yesterday - we received our ECM Classika PID...

First impression:
Packaging .. very efficient and nicely protected (really nice!). doable boxed etc.
Opening the package... ok... this is not the first machine we pull inner box from outer box - but it was probably the easiest (handles on the side of the inner box).

Finish / Parts / look : Looks awesome, parts are well packed, the finish is extremely nice. even the water tank - fulfilled my expectations... not an easy task. the potafilter - awesomely nice (even got the bottomless one for an extra - it comes with a huge basket that I haven't used yet).

first few uses:
1) Time to warming up: a delight. seriously - everything I was hopping for. few short minutes and you are ready to go.
2) PID - very nice and helps allot to know exactly when it warm - and you can help the group head - by heating the cups with water out of it (just speeds up everything).
3) Dialing in the Grind: it is very very easy with this machine: timer and all - just a breeze.
4) Taste of the espresso: very good. it is very easy to get it right, get the time/grind, the tamping (again - E61 - makes it easy ), if you ever used a Silvia.. you will KNOW the difference... you don't wait for the temperature surfing etc.. compared to the Expobar - easier to get it right (again - easy to get the temperature right, short wait time, no exact HX-flushing routine )
5) "The cookie": looks a bit muddy. Do not know yet why. will update on that.
6) Does it operate like a "German Machine" : Yes & NO! Actually is does seems well thought off - The water tank / pump noise / warm up tray / look / timer /switches --> Amazing!.. but with a big miss :
6.a: Drip tray and the E61: the Drip Tray is too small/not correctly designed. Also - it is not well engineered for its function: It is flat and very shallow. so when you stop the extraction and drop the level, the E61 3-way will shoot high pressured water down, these will hit the flat bottom / remaining water in the drip tray - and just spray all over the place. I am not kidding - this is stupid... than you really want to clean it up. I am trying to put some foam to absorb it...
6.b: Drip Tray "depth": again - not well thought of. E61 is big on all dimensions. the group head need the scabbing to remove the residual coffee. the Trip tray is not protruding enough to allow you to do that without spraying water all over the place .. on your table / counter top.. .. really stupid.
7) Steaming: OK.. I gave it a try... just like the Silvia.. it is really not meant for that... when I make latte I heat up the milk and froth it in a small french press and I am good to go. I will try it again - but the time to switch, even though it is quick, the mess is just too big (you need another container to hold the excess water in the swapping of the boiler purpose. We were ready for that.. so no surprise there, just don't count on that.

Followup update tomorrow...

3rd day / 2nd morning experience...

Repeatability and quality of espresso:
Single: From past experience - I never really appreciated the single... well things have changed . You just give it a try and this machine will provide you with amazing good shots! (using the provided single basket on the naked portafilter)
Double : I can honestly say that this is the first time for me that I can get that kind of consistency - Never with the Silvia, or with the HX (Expobar but without Eric's E61 temperature meter).

PID - can a simple user taste the difference in temperature ?
In very short description - yes... even when it is a Latte. Just give it a try and find the best one you like (lucky for me .. my wife and I agree on the correct spot)

Frothing..
Teh ECM steam wand is really nice and easy to maneuver to the right place. I got some quality steamed milk with shiny micro-foam. The steam power is really good. I change how I use the 2-hole tip, and I got some very good frothed milk. Don't try to prepare the milk ahead of the coffee ... ... in the short time it takes to cool this machine and than pull the espresso (it is a short time, once you look at the PID it is kind of simple) - the milk is completely separated from the foam. I thought I could "mix it up again" ... nope.. - Am I doing something wrong? I think I will try again in the other order.

The "puck"
It is not muddy anymore - just kind of wetter at the top than I was used to get in the Expobar. I did a few back-flushes after a short call to the support - and it seems to clear something. The "slurp" of the E61-3way is also a bit gentler now. I also adjusted the pressure to 9bar from the 10bar that it came set to.

Thanks for taking the time to write this "mini" review.

I have measured warm up times on a variety of machines and the great majority are temperature stable in 45 minutes. Sure, boiler water gets up to temp pretty fast but the grouphead has a considerable lag.

As regards the splash/mess in the drip tray upon ending the shot, try pausing momentarily in the middle lever position.

I think I will try again in the other order.

When preparing a milk-based drink, you can switch to steaming mode a few seconds after initiating a shot and there will be very little if any difference in the espresso. After steaming, you need to flush about 8 ounces of water through the grouphead to cool it down if you are preparing a second drink.

Thanks Eric !

Temperature: I think that I am "cheating" a bit with letting water out of the group head.
"Splash" - ok ... need to test this one!
Will try your proposed method for cutting down the time too ..

Thanks!

Good to see some threads on this one, almost nothing when I decided on our Classika PID. I left a little reply in a buying advice thread but can add a few comments here.

I have had mine for 2,5 weeks, and I agree that the drip tray could have been deeper. If I quickly lower the handle/lever when ending a shot it can be a little messy. But I just move it a little slower and I don't get mess. Especially when backflushing with solution I release the pressure slowly. I also water backflush after each session.

I often get soupy pucks, but it's not a problem, the espresso is good (unless user error-channeling). It leaves some water on top of the puck, which drains into the puck when I unlock the filter and a small amount of water then also drains out of the outlet of the grouphead, so its some kind of vacuum holding it there. Maybe I have too much headspace in my VST basket.

I get good foam for lattes now (removed inner "no burn" tube from within steam wand first day) and I never tried steaming milk until I got this machine. I never steam for myself tho', so it's not too often, maybe once a day for wifey, that's why I got this instead of a HX.

I'm really glad I got a machine with a PID. It's so great to see the temp, if it's ready for another pull. Great to be able to adjust temp as well, second shot tasted more bitter than first the first couple of days, so I lowered the PID one degree and learned that the machine is not all warmed up after 5-10 minutes when PID show the water is up to temp. I let it warm until portafilter arm is getting warm, do a warming flush and sometimes cheat it up to temp this way. It's warm in 15 mins after cold I'd say, and faster if used earlier. It retains heat for a pretty long time (insulated boiler probably helps there).

I'm so far really happy, and I love the timer, altho' I have to say the ideal machine would be plumbed in, and dual boiler would be nice for those few lattes, but I'd have to pay twice this machines price to get a dual boiler in my country (Alex Duetto) and it would be bigger on the counter. In 5-10 years maybe more choices, or maybe Linea Mini second hand. Until then I bet I'm going to be just fine with this one.

Temperature: I think that I am "cheating" a bit with letting water out of the group head.

I don't quite understand this but a typical GOOD procedure would be to let the machine warm up for 45 minutes, do a cursory group flush (1 second), and brew away immediately.

I can assure you, with 100% confidence, that the offset programmed into the PID was NOT based on anything other than a 45-60 minute warm up.

I can rant all day on this subject but the bottom line is that all of these prosumer machines are best with shots at 90-120 second intervals.

erics wrote:I don't quite understand this but a typical GOOD procedure would be to let the machine warm up for 45 minutes, do a cursory group flush (1 second), and brew away immediately.
.

Eric, I believe he simply means he is flushing hot water through the group and PF, to speed up the warming process .

Hi Eric and Beenbag,

Correct - I am cheating a little by letting the water out of the head-group.

As for waiting ~90-120 second between the shots ... I don't think I can make it faster than that ... so I am following this

Wait for 45 minute after turn on -->I sure can try- but usually in the morning I am just too short in time.. I will try punting it on a timer.

Thanks for the tip Eirn - it does help to pause in the mid point of the lever to reduce the "spray"of water.
What I dont understand is why - if ECM already invested and had a semi-indent into the bottom of the drip-tray (I guess for draining option)- they did not place it in such a way that the metal would be diagonal and away from the main body to reduce the back-splash on the machine... I know .. it is the small things... but that is part of what ECM is selling as a brand.

Cheers,

Water Question..

I read in Erics on the link provided -the water quality directory "Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ"

At the very end - one can find the below statement:
"If you have very soft water, or an RO system in the house, add a small pinch of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to every liter of water when you refill the tank. This will not be tasteable, and will supply about 70 mg/l of non -scaling alkalinity, more than enough to protect the boiler."

I took that on blind faith and indeed my Costco's watter now are PH balanced (originally these came with TDS=30ppm + PH=5.7) .

How important is it really if the boiler is Stainless ?

Thanks!

You have some sort of indent on the drip tray's bottom? My tray is entirely flat, the whole bottom.