Trouble dialing in Ponte Vecchio Lusso - Page 2

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epurc (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 9 years ago

#11: Post by epurc (original poster) »

My discoveries over the past week or so:

1) I may have had a bad bag of beans, which meant that over the course of 2 wks i started to lose faith and led to my initial post. When I opened up a new bag of the same ones, and pulled with the same parameters (16g) my first shot was tremendous. The rest of that second bag was pretty good. So I guess I'm just aware of that additional variable. The third I have just opened is causing me some of the same trouble, not quite as bad as the first bag tho. (Though the beans are only 6 days old so a bit young.) Overall the extractions have been on the bitter side, so maybe overextracted.

2) It sounds like it might make sense for me to bring down the pressure. I have been avoiding that because I tried doing it on the first PVL i received and it quite literally refused to open. I assume that this would make it less likely that I overextract the beans and allow for more subtle extractions, is that accurate?

3) I am still unsure of the "right" way to dose this basket. Given that it is as deep as it is, a 16g shot dosed w/ funnel never fills to the top, so there's no hope of finger-leveling. Assessing the level (tilt) of the puck also seems logistically challenging -- any advice on how to do this? I am planning on sending off my pf to get cut, but other than that, not sure what practical technique will uplevel this.

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peacecup
Posts: 3649
Joined: 19 years ago

#12: Post by peacecup »

A good way to see if you like cooler temperature (lower pressure) is to pull a shot as soon as the machine comes up to pressure, before the group gets hot. Then it will cool the water more, and you'll see how you like it.

I pack the basket with repeated leveling tamps, fill, level with the tamper, fill and level, fill and level.

The metal case can be taken off by inserting a flat blade under the case from underneath the machine so you don't damage it. Turn the machine so the end hangs over the edge of the bench or table, and access the little slot from underneath.

Some people have drilled holes in the side of the case to acess the Pstat without removing the case.

PC
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Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

epurc (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 9 years ago

#13: Post by epurc (original poster) »

A good way to see if you like cooler temperature (lower pressure) is to pull a shot as soon as the machine comes up to pressure, before the group gets hot. Then it will cool the water more, and you'll see how you like it.
Had an interesting 3 pulls today. For the first one, I made a point of only having the machine on for ~15m before pulling the first shot, and did not do a flush to warm up the grouphead. The resultant espresso was room temperature, if not cooler -- and also had much more pronounced flavor than I'm currently used to getting. (Admittedly, it was also pretty "noisy" in that there may have been too many flavors, but that is something that could be accounted for with grind, which was set for higher temps.) So I am excited at the possibility of adjusting the pstat.

However, I also had luck with following 2 shots at higher temps. I also made the following adjustments to my technique (yes, many at once, not very scientific):
1) moved the portafilter around in circles while dosing directly from the Vario, to make sure that the grounds reached the edges of the basket. (Previously, relied on the slapshot method to get grounds to the edges.) During the pulls, both spouts output at a relatively more similar rate than they had previously.
2) Lightened my tamp.
3) My beans aged another day and are now +7 days from roast, which means they should be hitting the sweet spot.

The two shots after my low-temp one were sweet and balanced, with strawberry and tea notes. Just what I'm looking for from an espresso. I think it's very likely I end up changing pstat when I get the nerve up, but for now my results have crossed into the "good" range, so I am pleased.

sprint jinx
Posts: 220
Joined: 13 years ago

#14: Post by sprint jinx »

I have been using a new to me PVL 2 group unit here at my workplace along with a few co-workers.
I'm chiming in just for you to reference this as we feel that it is working well for us.

The pressure setting has been adjusted from when it arrived at 1.4 to 1.1. 1.4 produced burned flavors in the few shots we tried when it arrived.
We are using 11 or 12 grams, carefully weighed on digital lab scales. Tamping is light, just to level it with a slight smoosh.
We wait for the machine to fully heat, release the false pressure, and flush well before making any shots.
We are using a Lido 2 hand grinder when I do not feel like lugging my mazzer from home, the lido is set at about 8 notches out from zero, which gives a tight grind, fluffy and powdery.
We are pulling the shots and holding them down for pre-infusion for 4-7 seconds, allowing for a full stroke return, and then pulling down once more. By the end of that shot, the flow is blonding, so we move the cup away. Total output is about 25ml, has crema and is generally bright, balanced and not bitter nor sour.
We have been adjusting the grinder setting. If pre-infusion produces droplets right away, we have found that the resulting spring pressure flows out too quickly. Right now, we are not getting any droplets until the lever is released, the drops begin with that added pressure and increase to a mouse tail in 10 seconds. The second pull keeps that flow going.

Also- I have been making a shot at home on my HX machine, and then using the same grinder setting on the mazzer on the same coffee beans, the only change is to the Lusso and dose amount. I will say that the difference in taste between the two machines is striking. The bean is an Ethiopian Yirg, and the HX gives it lots of body, low notes and earthy tones. The lusso gives off a more balanced flavor, more upfront fruit, and less chocolaty body. Different yes, better, perhaps.
This morning we had an expensive Kenyan bean and it was super bright, very tart, followed by caramels and earthy notes. We did three shots each, side by side, while adjusting the grinder. Finally, we balanced the bright kenyan with another bean that was roasted darker, just to balance the brightness with something else and it worked better.

It seems from what I have read that it is difficult to ruin a shot with these Lusso levers. The are a forgiving design.

good luck-

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narc
Posts: 306
Joined: 16 years ago

#15: Post by narc »

PVL2 user for a few years. Pulling shots similar to how sprint jinx has outlined. Below is what more or less has worked for me.

PStat set at 1.1. Personal choice for most the roasts used.
12-14 gm dose dependent on the beans for double basket ground probably finer than most would. Grinder is larger conical electric. No real pressure on the tamper. Just a leveling "tamp". Found that I prefer singles dosed at the traditional 7gm in the single baskets for most varieties and blends at most of the roast ranges.
Home roaster with sometimes too fresh a roast :mrgreen: .
7-10 sec preinfusion.
Before the 1st pull cycling couple blank shot with a couple minutes wait before pulling the first real shot seems to help consistency.
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Javier
Posts: 649
Joined: 18 years ago

#16: Post by Javier »

narc wrote:Found that I prefer singles dosed at the traditional 7gm in the single baskets for most varieties and blends at most of the roast ranges.
This is very interesting. Have you found "easier" to consistently pull great shots from the single basket than from the double basket?
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narc
Posts: 306
Joined: 16 years ago

#17: Post by narc replying to Javier »

Personal taste preference. Also prefer singles pulled on the MCal. Singles to my palate have a more complex taste with more distinct characteristics. Reserve doubles for traditional cappuccinos. No real difference in how consistent the pulls are. When off, I'm off pulling singles or doubles. Naked portafilter reveals flaws.
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day
Posts: 1316
Joined: 9 years ago

#18: Post by day »

epurc wrote:My discoveries over the past week or so:

1) I may have had a bad bag of beans, which meant that over the course of 2 wks i started to lose faith and led to my initial post. When I opened up a new bag of the same ones, and pulled with the same parameters (16g) my first shot was tremendous. The rest of that second bag was pretty good. So I guess I'm just aware of that additional variable. The third I have just opened is causing me some of the same trouble, not quite as bad as the first bag tho. (Though the beans are only 6 days old so a bit young.) Overall the extractions have been on the bitter side, so maybe overextracted.

2) It sounds like it might make sense for me to bring down the pressure. I have been avoiding that because I tried doing it on the first PVL i received and it quite literally refused to open. I assume that this would make it less likely that I overextract the beans and allow for more subtle extractions, is that accurate?

3) I am still unsure of the "right" way to dose this basket. Given that it is as deep as it is, a 16g shot dosed w/ funnel never fills to the top, so there's no hope of finger-leveling. Assessing the level (tilt) of the puck also seems logistically challenging -- any advice on how to do this? I am planning on sending off my pf to get cut, but other than that, not sure what practical technique will uplevel this.
On 3: it is totally unnecessary to do a finger sweep. If your grind is under the top of the basket you may be under dosing or need a smaller basket. After wdt or if you have an excellent grinder with easy pf filling, then if you tap level and steady it will compress the grinds evenly into the basket. Then make sure you tamp level. I have seen it done from the sode (havent been successful with that myself) and straight down, but keep it simple. Even if the top does not appear totally level the bean mass can still be evenly distributed and the tamp can do its job properly.
Yes, i you per this on an iPhone

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