I'm not pro roasting where it's natural to get a sample, roast it,and then have some ideas when deciding an approach to the intended roast when the quantity arrives. Homeroasters can usually look to provided cupping notes and bean specs to give a clue if it's something I might like and when it arrives already from experience have a first approach in mind. Good cupping notes along with the physical specs give the information for the first approach. I develop the whole profile, charge size/temp, several BT points RoR and drop temp.and then follow it. I tend to think RoR at points than thinking controversial standard segments. The BT points I consider vary, depending. Along the 1st roast I find out if the beans reacted to heat applied as I thought they would(physical specs) and then what the results were in the cup. With good control of the roaster and advanced monitoring with RoR, fine tweaks can quite easily happen from there. Basically repeating the same process.

endlesscycles wrote:Once you identify baked flavors, they become so clear and obvious that every coffee (of sufficient development, being defined by exhibiting enough solubility to get 20% extraction from "normal" espresso parameters) has baked notes to varying degrees. Trying to "correct" a roast that doesn't seem to be getting to "target temp" soon enough will increase the prevalence of baked flavors.

I've been noticing the same thing. Everything tastes baked now. Some coffees exhibit it moreso than others, but everything is baked. I just extract hot and aggressively (204-205 F, 21-22%), and it's minimized.

SJM wrote:I wonder if the shape of a profile might be more indicative of its success than the actual temperatures (within limits of course). If the curve is taken into consideration rather than absolute temperatures it might make the temperatures that the OP mentioned for FC less critical.

I find that given a 2-4 F drop window, absolute drop temp isn't all that important. I care more about RoR, intervals, heat application vs. time, and airflow. Specifically, I know that not achieving a declining BT RoR in development causes very obvious baking defects - at least in my Quest M3 - and I will sacrifice other variables if need be to get that.

hankua wrote: Another related question: post 1st crack development time vs drop temp? Which would take preference?
I would give preference to drop temp. every time; even if it risked ruining the roast.

I'll try to make both of them (post 1C development time ratio & drop temp) in the ball park. If something's gotta give, I'll sacrifice my target drop temp and maintain the time ratio.

Imo, the drop temperature is pre-determined by the RoR while beans entering the 1stCrack. If I want to reach a higher drop temperature, the best way is to keep the momentum high enough before 1C; not extending the post-1C time to reach my target drop temperature.

9Sbeans wrote:
Imo, the drop temperature is pre-determined by the RoR while beans entering the 1stCrack. If I want to reach a higher drop temperature, the best way is to keep the momentum high enough before 1C; not extending the post-1C time to reach my target drop temperature.

Totally agree with managing both post 1st crack-end of roast along with target drop temperature. If your running multiple back to back roasts using the same profile/charge it's easier to reach both parameters at target points.

But it is possible to reach target temps in the middle of 1st crack without underdevelopment. Marshall has definitely turned conventional roasting theory upside-down.

So I accidentally roasted a coffee WAY too fast last week... mostly because I only had 5lbs of it left, didn't know where to set the heat, and the probe placement wasn't reading right. I followed my gut not touching heat, and once the crack was in full swing I started backing off the heat. Instead of my usual 20% drop, I instead opted for 10%+1min, where for this coffee was a ~4:43min 1C, 6:15min drop. For most, 20% and 10%+1min are one in the same. The idea being that the coffee would need one minute in addition to full pop to get most of the outliers to crack.

Today, one week off roast I compared this 6.25min roast to a typical 9min roast and they were NEARLY indistinguishable in the cup. There was a certain roughness in the longer roast and a certain graininess in the short roast, but otherwise they were identical. With a nod towards clean cup, the short roast wins.

Food for thought.