BillRedding wrote:...so don't turn the steam boiler off! - BR

That would be the obvious solution but anyone who reads the posts on this forum knows that plenty of owners do turn off the steam boilers to conserve energy when they have that option.

Unless you're pulling shots back to back, the machine will probably recover as fast as you can prep and it has all that brass in the group. I have never had a 'cold' shot with my machine and I've pulled multiple in a session.

So your different angle has been beat to death already.

JohnB,

...on 2nd thought, never mind (original response deleted)...

-- BR

JohnB. wrote:This is common on the high end DBs but do any of the Prosumer DBs offer this feature?

The Izzo Duetto does as well. At least V2 and I'd assume V3.

brianl wrote:Unless you're pulling shots back to back, the machine will probably recover as fast as you can prep and it has all that brass in the group. I have never had a 'cold' shot with my machine and I've pulled multiple in a session.

So your different angle has been beat to death already.

Actually the preheated brew water feed has more to do with maintaining temp stability during a shot then boiler recover between shots although it will help there also. Most brew boilers with a properly sized heating element will recover between shots without the pre heat option although you may end up with a larger overshoot due to the larger temp drop. Seems to be pretty common for owners of E61 DBs to do a flush after an idle period to warm up all that brass so you are introducing cool/cold water before & during a shot if you are running with the steam boiler turned off. The cooling effect would be more noticeable with a plumbed in machine then one with a reservoir where the water has been warmed by the heat inside the machine.

Getting back to Hal (the OP), and the particular XXX? which will replace your Gaggia:

Is there anything you want to know about the practical, design or mechanical aspects of DB vs HX? I noticed that you talked about DBs and Levers in your original post, but not about HXs.

Offhand, do you prefer one type of machine over the other? Why?

Budget?

GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER

Rich

brianl wrote:Unless you're pulling shots back to back, the machine will probably recover as fast as you can prep and it has all that brass in the group. I have never had a 'cold' shot with my machine and I've pulled multiple in a session.

So your different angle has been beat to death already.

Depends on your barista skill level. Specifically because recovery was far too slow with steam boiler off for back to back shots why after a year I replaced my VBM DD with QM V2B. (since replaced with Vesusvius but that's another story)

It's true that good technique can beat recovery on some prosumer machines. But grant Brian his point, time between pulls makes all the difference. Prep time doesn't -- or shouldn't -- matter much if you're only pulling one shot every four or five minutes.

What was the recovery time between shots for the Vibiemme?

Rich

Entertaining lets say 8 people. 8 shots x 4 minutes = 32 minutes! Recovery time does matter. That time should be able to be at the minimum cut in half any decent prosumer machine.

It's been well over a year but as I recall with steam boiler off so no brew boiler HX preheat back to back shot pace 3 minutes or more VBM DD. For some people that may be fine. But I got very tired of having to wait a minute or more after the next pf was ready to be able to lock and pull. I'll add that with steam boiler on recovery was acceptable. As I recall then only had to wait 5 to 10 seconds after next pf built. But since I only made a cap' a couple times a week I run with steam boiler off and leave machine on 24/7.

Compass Coffee wrote:Entertaining lets say 8 people. 8 shots x 4 minutes = 32 minutes! Recovery time does matter. That time should be able to be at the minimum cut in half any decent prosumer machine.

Four minutes is unacceptable if you entertain, which is why I caveated my comment. It's also why I asked you what the actual recovery time was, but since 4min seems to have struck a nerve, let's let it go at that.

We don't do that much entertaining anymore, especially not that much which involves espresso. However, it's often enough that I wouldn't buy a machine which wasn't capable of four double shots in four minutes; or more typically, two straight doubles, two double flat whites, and four double lattes in ten -- but that's us.

Besides big boilers, true commercial machines tend to have better layouts for bangin' em out than semiautomatic E61 prosumers. Yet another reason to reach for the stars.

Rich