Hi all. This is my first post on Home-Barista, so if I commit some sort of faux-pas or ask something exceedingly dull that's been covered a million times already, please do let me know.

I'm currently a barista at an independent coffee shop / roastery in Cincinnati, OH. I was trained in the shop where I currently work, and have worked pretty much exclusively on fully automatic La Marzocco Lineas accompanied by Mazzer Grinders of various sizes. While I have had some issues with the Lineas (the three group in our cafe is a bit temperamental) and I don't find them to be the most attractive of machines, by and large I like them. At home, I make pretty much exclusively pourovers, switching between a Chemex, a V60, and a Kalita. Every once in a blue moon I'll pull out my French Press for a change. Over the past few months I've been getting more and more serious about coffee and have been thinking more and more about getting a home espresso machine for the sake of testing out other beans and different sorts of extractions than I have the opportunity to work with on the Linea at the shop. Beyond that, I'm hoping to start competing in the semi-near future, and would like to be able to practice outside of work to perfect my extractions and get my milk and art as consistent as possible. I also am intrigued by the idea of using this machine for smaller catering or espresso cart-type jobs on the side.

Thus I find myself shopping for a home machine. As much as I'd love a La Marzocco, and drool over the GS3/MP in our roasting room, I don't have that kind of cash to throw around. I'd like to get as close to that golden standard as possible though, and a machine that allows for a little more manual control than a Linea would be nice. I've found myself quite drawn to the Izzo Alex Duetto 3, since it seems to be a well built and serious all rounder with enough control to allow me to tinker. Plus, Prima Coffee sell it, which means I could get it fairly heavily discounted through the shop where I work. I'm very open to other ideas, but would rather steer clear of full on lever machines or, on the other end of the spectrum, very modern looking automatic machines like the Nuovo Simonelli types. Would the the Duetto be the kind of quality I'm looking for? Am I crazy to think I could get a "cafe quality" machine for less than $3k?

Also, I'll be buying a Baratza Vario in the next couple weeks to cover all my pourover grinding needs, and that'll probably cross over to be my espresso grinder, at least for a little while. From what I've read, it seems like the best somewhat affordable contender for an all-rounder type grinder.

As much as I know my way around the coffee world and am very comfortable in a cafe setting, the world of home machines and grinders is pretty new to me, and I want to make sure that I'm not expecting too much of equipment that's not designed to be quite as workhorse-y as the machines I'm used to working on. Any advice you can give would be super appreciated.

Thanks so much, folks.

Alex

You can certainly get a machine that will make "cafe quality" espresso. That is really what is important.

Save some money and get a Breville Dual Boiler. Can give much more expensive machines a run for their money.

alexevansohio,

Since you mention Prima Coffee as a source for your equipment, I need to advise you to beware of the "small print" @ Prima Coffee re: some purchases, such as their "big ticket" items like grinders and espresso machines! While they have great ratings and pricing on some big-ticket items (a Mazzer Mini grinder in my case), IMO they do NOT have a return policy that upholds their "we want our customers to be satisfied" statement.

Meaning, for specific example, buy a grinder (or espresso machine) from Prima Coffee and USE it -- then decide for some reason you're not happy with it (i.e., you're not "satisfied") -- it doesn't matter, you can NOT return a "used" grinder, so it's yours to keep, period. Or a "used" espresso machine. OTHER stores/online vendors have a 30-day return policy on used grinders (and used espresso machines, too) but not so with Prima Coffee. They give some long explanation why, but IMO it's just lame (weasel-words), as it does not help a "dissatisfied" customer at all. IMO then, it's a HUGE shortcoming and although I purchased my Mazzer Mini from them at a great price, I found out AFTER the sale (didn't read their "satisfied customer disclaimer" BEFORE the sale, I just "assumed" I could return/exchange it if need be), I discovered that they would not take it back for any reason since I had "used" it -- except maybe if it were defective -- at least THEN I would hope so! But getting an upscale grinder that is defective is HIGHLY unlikely...

Yes, I understand that some of these well-rated but small "Mom and Pop" (if you will) online espresso equipment vendors do not actually have these grinders/espresso machines in-stock in their store (or home-business) so they DO get them from some distributor. But even so, OTHER such "we get them from someone else" vendors still DO have a more generous return policy -- Prima Coffee doesn't.

Anyway...I just wanted you to be aware of that: Buy an espresso machine or grinder from Prima Coffee, use it even ONCE (as it will have had coffee grounds in it, even though many BRAND NEW grinders come to you with coffee grinds/residue in them from factory "use" -- testing), and it's YOURS to keep. Even if you're not "satisfied" or don't want to keep it for some reason ("Buyer's Remorse," too much static charging of the grinds so they go/cling everywhere, too much grind retention and/or too difficult to access the outlet chute to clear it out, motor too noisy -- whatever). So "enjoy" the ownership -- like it or not. So IMO, Prima Coffee's "we want our customers to be satisfied" via their "No Hassle Return Policy" doesn't succeed in that goal, as it has too may disqualifiers. So their concept of "Customer Satisfaction" and "No Hassle" is very peculiar, and meaningless as well.

Yes, I did a good review for them on my recent purchase experience -- all THAT part of it went well -- but when I discovered LATER the "exceptions" re: what items are NON-returnable, that once I "used" the grinder it was mine forever (like it or not, satisfied or not), I wrote them about that policy...did not get ANY response back at all. Sad...

Consequently, I will NOT be buying anything from Prima Coffee again. Even if the item IS on their "returnable" list. Sure, taking a hit on an $80 tamper is one thing, but taking a hit on a $$$$ grinder or espresso machine is quite another, yes?

As mentioned, there are OTHER vendors/stores that have a MUCH better return policy (despite what can be hefty restocking fees, if any, which still beats not being able to return it at all)...so when I'm ready to upgrade my machine and/or grinder, it will not be coming from Prima Coffee. Sometimes, actually OFTEN nowadays, you can't go to a local store to try-before-you-buy a product, you MUST order it online, get it home and then USE it to be sure it will meet your needs. YouTube videos on an item HELP, but still it's not in your possession to work with hands-on. So if for some reason you aren't happy with it -- after USING it for a little while -- then you MUST have the option of returning it to the vendor for a refund or exchange. There should be no weasel-word "explanations" (aka: "excuses") why you can't do that.

Please note: I'm not bashing them, just stating the facts as per their return policy (with all the "exceptions") and as per my personal shopping experience with them. They seem like nice people and have great prices on some items, but fall short big-time on their Return Policy. Not cool. I mean who wants to buy a $1K+ grinder or a $2-3K espresso machine and find -- for whatever reason (other than being defective) -- they want to return it for a refund (even minus the ubiquitous "restocking fees" we see nowadays, on top of YOU paying for return shipping), an even-exchange for another like-priced item, or maybe only wanting to return it in order to trade UP to a more expensive grinder/espresso machine? But can't do any of those 3 things. So much for Prima Coffee's "No Hassle" return policy...

Please research your online vendors carefully, and read their Return Policy page even more carefully...BEFORE you buy!

Good luck...

-- Bill Redding

P.S. Beware of Baratza grinders design-wise: If their design still is as it was when I got my Baratza Virtuoso Preciso (BVP) a few years back (to go with my Rancilio Silvia v3), they use lightweight/thin white "nylon" (?) burr-holder/collars with fragile "tabs" that sometimes break (the tabs or the collars themselves break) and you then notice serious grind inconsistency! Or, occasionally they get out of adjustment somehow (which also results in grind inconsistency). The reason Baratza uses nylon burr holders/collars (yes, Baratza TOLD me) is because if something jams the burrs (a stone in the beans for example) the collar will break and not something else more expensive to replace. Whatever, I found my BVP grinder to be "less robust" than I wanted so I had to return it to them and got a different brand of grinder with a much more solid/durable burr holder design (metal, not nylon -- I chose a heavier/more solidly-built Rancilio Rocky Doserless to replace the BVP and it was a great choice). Baratza Customer Service was great to work with, so no complaints there -- they even offered me a more expensive model grinder (a refurbished Vario) as a replacement -- but due to the "lightweight" design of their grinders (their decision to use nylon burr holders especially) and already experiencing broken burr-collars, however, I'd not want to get another Baratza grinder. If YOU end up getting a Baratza grinder though, I'd advise you ALSO to buy a few of those nylon burr holders/collars for spares in case you ALSO experience a broken one like I did.

P.P.S. As for your "home cafe" needs, yes, the Izzo Alex Duetto -- if you insist on a double-boiler (DB) machine vs. an HX (Heat Exchanger) machine -- would give you great espresso and plenty of steam for frothing. And LOOKS great, too! BTW, "home cafe" is what the word "Domobar" means in the Vibiemme espresso machine model names, and they make both DB and HX models (with vibratory or rotary pumps, as do other brands).

So would a group of other branded machines in the same general performance/quality/pricing class make a nice home café machine...such as (and in no particular order) Profitec, ECM, Faema, Vibiemme (which "hatched" from Faema), Rocket, or Quick Mill...possibly even an Expobar (Spain). They all even look very similar externally, and most of the Italian ones are even made with mostly the same internal components. But there ARE differences in some materials used, layout of the boilers/pumps/electronics inside, and even the steel used in the frame (painted steel frames or all stainless-steel frames). Most of them use copper boilers, but the Profitec (German designed/Italian made) uses stainless-steel boilers -- all the other Profitec components look like most other Italian-made machines in this same category.

Also remember that E-61 group-head (or proprietary equivalent) espresso machines, in DB or HX format, are pretty much equal in what they can do -- make great espresso and provide plenty of steam -- they just do it differently. Neither one is "better" than the other -- just choose which "platform" (DB or HX) works best for YOUR needs.

Regardless, in that price-bracket (meaning $1500 to $3000 approx.) these "shiny chrome*/classic look" E-61 (or proprietary group-head heating design) machines are ALL pretty good quality-wise, and definitely "upscale" home espresso machines!

...then you have the La Marzocco GS/3 (as you mentioned) and Elektra and such...but they're another $4k price-wise. And while most of us would like to have one of those -- or an "artsy" Kees Van Der Westen machine (I know *I* would!) -- in reality they all probably make no better espresso (although their owners would say differently I'm sure, if only to justify the $$$$$ spent). Yet they ARE at the very least objects d'art for sure! But then, so is my Vibiemme in its own way. Likewise an Izzo Alex, Rocket, Profitec, ECM, Faema, Quick Mill, etc...

Whatever, good luck on your "due diligence" research AND future purchase decisions.

-- Bill Redding

*looks like chrome but are really highly-polished stainless-steel cases/housings/covers. The E-61 group-heads, however, are usually chrome-plated brass.

-- BR