Hello all,

I am debating these two machines. Assuming the god shot isn't a goal and price is not an issue, ease of use and quality of shot are the keys, 24 oz max of steamed milk at a go, sweetness more important than absolute clarity, which do you choose and why? If you have an alternative, please advocate.

John

These are so different, and they're both excellent choices for shot quality. You can get suggestions on this forum, but it's also a matter of how large you want a machine to be on your counter. The Elektra is IMO the best of class in a home lever. The Achille is much larger with a commercial group. They would have a very different feel in your home. You could find a dealer where you can try each. If you're wanting sweetness rather than shot clarity probably the Achille is the way to go because you'll get a larger, more concentrated shot. But then why not go for shot clarity? The Elektra excels at that and is a go-to for me when I'm having trouble dialing in on anything but my Conti Prestina. The Prestina is like a grown-up Elektra for shot style.

In addition to what Gary mentioned, keep in mind the max pressure differences. The Achilles will have a lot higher max pressure due to it's commercial spring group power, as opposed to the MCaL's lower max pressure springs (without any mods). Many people love their MCaL for it's lower pressure, in that it creates a lower body but higher clarity shot. I'm not sure that either machine would suffer on the sweetness end, since they can be controlled either way. I would think of it in terms of clarity vs body, unless you start holding back the Achilles lever to try to reproduce a lower pressure shot.

I would add the Londinium and Strega to your list to look into. All 4 are great machines, and it kind of just depends on where your preferences for coffee types are, and the work-flow that would fit best. I will say...it does seem that out of the group, the Achilles is the most expensive, and I'm not sure if that equates to exactly the best.

24 oz of milk at a time?
4.5l boiler is undoubtedly going to out steam 1.8l boiler.

While there are similar choices in the same price range (Izzo Leva, Londinium, ect) I'd go with the Achilles over the Microcasa in a heartbeat. I've owned a Microcasa, Strega & now a Bosco Sorrento. Steaming definitely isn't a Microcasa strong point unless you are steaming fairly small amounts. The Microcasa shots may or may not have more clarity then a commercial spring lever but it only does well with a limited range of coffees IMO.

The commercial group shared by the Achilles, L1, Bosco, ect. will require a much longer warm up time so you should be prepared to either set it up on a timer to run all day or just leave it on 24/7.

The OP really ought to see if he can try out some of the machines he's considering before plunking down several thousand dollars on one sight unseen (or hand unused, I guess). For instance, I know there are several Londinium owners in Canada, probably some in the Toronto area, and it may be possible to arrange a tryout by inquiring on the Londinium pre-sales forum (which is also a good source of information in general since there seem to be many happy L1 owners more than willing to answer questions and discuss their experiences). I'm seriously considering one (or the L1-P) as my next machine as it hits the mark in so many ways.

A bit of advice pertinent to both lever and pump machines: I'd strongly recommend getting any machine plumbed in with good water treatment upstream. It's silly not to do so with equipment in this class.

CoffeeMan9000 wrote:Assuming the god shot isn't a goal and price is not an issue, ease of use and quality of shot are the keys, 24 oz max of steamed milk at a go, sweetness more important than absolute clarity, which do you choose and why?

When I read each phrase in that sentence carefully, it appears that every criteria points toward the Achille over the MCAL. You neglected to say that size/weight is no issue -- the Achille is a big, and maybe 80 or 90 lbs. Also, warm up time - the Achille will take considerably longer to be ready to brew and as others have pointed out you may want it on a timer so it's ready for your wake-up coffees.

If you sometimes have a few people in for coffees, especially milk drinks, you can bang them out way more easily and efficiently on the Achille.

At the current $1000 off, I find that Achille pretty tempting even though it's overkill. For example it only uses the pump to fill the boiler, but comes with a big and expensive rotary instead of a vibe. But no question that rotary is better, partly because it will be far quieter when the auto-fill does kick in, and you did say price is no issue. Even though it has a pump and a Gicar-controlled autofill, I like that it is basically an old school design. Even has a sight glass to show the boiler fill level.

I have had my Achille since October 2012. I don't know if/how the current Achille has changed from mine. All of the observations and comments below relate directly to my 2010 Quickmill Achille.

WARMUP
To warm my 2012 Achille up:-
*Cover group with towel
*it takes 13-14 minutes for the anti-vac valve to close and for pressure to start to register on the gauge from turn-on
*4 minutes later pressure has reached 1.2 Bar and heater element turns off
*Purge water through group for a few seconds.
Have a quick look around outside and then come in and grind coffee. Ready to go! All up just over 20 minutes. The adhesive temp strip that I have (that you will definitely need) shows 75C at this point, which is ideal operating temperature.

THERMOSIPHON and TS Stall
My Achille is (apparently) like the Londinium 1...not a dipper group (which takes 45 minutes to reach operating temperature). This accounts for the quicker warmup mentioned above. It also means that my Achille suffers from TS stall. With an adhesive temp. strip on the grouphead it is child's play to simply flush a 1 second or so blast of water from the group before the next shot. This clears old grounds from the screen and also brings the temp. up to the desired level due to the thermosiphon stall. No biggie but you need the temp. strip.

ROTARY PUMP
The rotary pump in mine is there for ballast. The group has double springs which require a bit of oomph to cock. Any less weight and the Achille would tip when pulling the lever down. The rotary pump in mine is NOT quiet. All of the initial batch of Achilles that landed in Australia had loud pumps. This was later traced (apparently...but not confirmed) to inlet solenoids that were of much too small a diameter. I know of one fellow-Achille owner who said his sounded like a chaff-cutter! The QM factory was unable to provide any information or help on this one. I would dearly love to make my one less noisy but am not sure where to go with this.
When plumbed-in, the pump is just as loud.

COSMETIC BUILD QUALITY
Top notch!

QUALITY OF ESPRESSO
Really great....worth the quirks and quibbles.

TO SUM UP
The Achille is a quirky machine...no doubt about that. However... I love using mine and tasting the espresso that it produces.

It is no longer imported into Australia, so there is no-one to ask about said quirks. The e-mails that I sent to the QM factory in Italy were not replied-to. They were deferred to the then-agent. I was left with the idea that there was a huge language barrier between the QM factory and the English language. The QM comments that eventually came back to me were either off-topic or not helpful. There was no real backup.
As a contrast, I know that the Londinium 1 is sold by someone who makes himself available via e-mail and Skype and keen to get to the bottom of any grievance with his machine....so the Londinium could be a better way to go.

YET-
If you have a reputable sales and service agent in your country who speaks Italian, then I would say "Go for the Achille!"


(If there IS a QM dealer who sells the Achille out there somewhere who has great communication with the QM factory, I would LOVE to know for sure that a larger diameter inlet solenoid would quieten my machine and where I could get one that would fit my machine. It would be great to hear from you.)


Cheers,
Paolo