jfrescki wrote:Something doesn't sound right. You should be able to grind fine enough to choke a machine a much lower doses.

This machine like the sage oracle ( which actually doses and tamps ) has a built in grinder .....Its not great
The oracle is set up fro a 21g dose ( it does it pretty well btw ) .. I suspect its a case with the barista of the Breville grinder either needing shimming to go fine enough for smaller doses , or just isn't capable of grinding light single origins fine enough at smaller doses.....

Mrboots2u wrote:This machine like the sage oracle ( which actually doses and tamps ) has a built in grinder .....

Sorry for the thread hijack, but Martin is using a Ceado E6 and BDB, and he's stuck at 19g.

I was answering the question

"Only 21g could build up proper pressure and flow time on my Barista Express"

I have set my grinder to go finer, and I am able to use only 18g. I think my set up is fine. Thank you for all the input.

I've been roasting for about 2 years now for press and Aeropress, but I just got my Vetrano and Forte set up last night and pulled my first ever espresso this morning. I only have a Yirgacheffe on hand that is roasted to City+, maybe a bit towards Full City. The shot I pulled was palatable (18g grind, 2oz shot, 27 seconds), but not what I'd call delicious. The other green coffees I have on hand are all SOs, mostly Africans. I generally roast these on the lighter side of Full City, but I'm wondering if I should adjust my roast darker for Espresso. The lighter roast was pretty acidic and not very sweet. Honestly, the taste was pretty much what I expected from the light roast.

So for coffees that are commonly roasted on the light side, is it typical to take the roast darker for espresso? I'm going to try it for my own sake, but I'm curious what others do.

I'd adjust the brew ratio and weigh out also ...
So go finer
If using a 18g dose then
18g dose 36g of espresso over 25-30 seconds
If dosing down as Jim suggests earlier then id go 16g into 32 g and taste that
Wither way your going to have to tighten your grind
Does this improve the taste?

It's getting better. 1st I both ground 18g finer (2 micros on the Forte) and raised the brew temp to 202F. That did not help, as it just choked the machine and gave me about 1oz after 30 seconds, and it still tasted quite acidic. Today, I went back to the original grind but dosed to 16g. The taste is better, but it pulled fast: 2.5 oz in about 18 seconds. This afternoon, I'll try 16g, go 2 clicks finer at a brew temp of 202, and maybe I'll find the sweet spot for this particular coffee, just in time to run out of beans!

Thanks for the advice! Underdosing a finer grind does seem to be the key to these lighter single origin roasts.

With light roast SOE's, your goal is just to extract more. This isn't that hard with sufficiently high-quality equipment. Grind finer, extract hotter, run more water through (50% brew ratio or longer), take longer (>30s, typically), and dose lower (I generally use 15g in a VST 15 for SOE's). Ideally, use a refractometer to dial in your extraction to >19%.

It's taken a while for me to appreciate this, mostly for lack of good examples. However, that's changing for the better. Fact is, if the coffee is not soluble enough for espresso, it wasn't fully roasted. This is not a necessarily a function of light/dark, but how. Getting a good shot is a great indication of how fully the coffee was roasted. A good roast will work for espresso; yes even very light roasted single origins.

endlesscycles wrote:if the coffee is not soluble enough for espresso, it wasn't fully roasted.

In theory it's hard to disagree with this. In practice, "soluble enough" is a moving target depending on one's grinder, water quality, and experience level.