Hi everyone!

So I am having some fun with my new Quest M3 and have only 5 roasts under the belt with three different "recipes". I am totally new to this so please forgive my newbee questions but just want to make sure I am on the right track as I begin my journey and find my own work flow. One method, I think the roast actually stalled because after 20+ minutes, nothing. Ramp was REALLY slow. Never even made it to 200C after 20 minutes. Wound up dumping it in the garbage.

What I have:
Quest M3
Monitoring BT and MET with EricS thermocouples.
Using Roastmaster App with Bluetherm Duo
Using SM Columbia Tres Organic Parques-Apia

1. I sort of did back to back roast. Sort of because after the first, I took my time by dumping the first, throwing it in a colander after cooling and kneading it to get some more chaff then took a little time prepping the second. My question here is my first roast ended at 11:38. When I finally started the second, First Crack began at 4:39 and I ended it at 6:48. The cracks were sparse for the lack of better terms. For Quest users, would this be normal for subsequent roasts or did I do something wrong? I am assuming the drum was still very warm from the first therefore a quicker turnaround?

2. For Quest users, on the fan side, there is a green line on the knob where at the 12 O'clock being zero, but at max, it falls short of the 10, about 8.6 on the index at max. Would this be the norm?

3. The drying phase I read about. Is this where the bean goes from green to about a yellowish color? Is this part of the curve where it begins it ascend upward after leveling out or is it from drop to ascending?

4. One of my challenges now is distinguishing FC to SC. I have listened to a few audibles from Sweet Marias resource page. Is there a usual lag time between the two or is it bean dependant where it can actually run into each other? To put it out there, my hearing is not the greatest. I'm thinking I will have a learning/hearing curve here to distinguish between the two.

I can provide the charts upon request on the roasts I have done.

Thanks a million!

For starters, I don't own a Quest, but a Huky 500. But the principels are the same.
I take it there are many "starting out with the quest m3" threads on this forum and elsewhere. While eagerly waiting for my Huky 500 to arrive I did a lot of studies and I still failed with my first roasts.
Anyhow.
1: You need to preheat the roaster, not only so that the temp have come up to your starting temp, but hold it at some 20-50C (50-100F) for say 5-10 minutes and then let it slowly decrease into your desired charge-temperature. Also, if you plan to do subsequent roasts, keep the temp somewhere around/above charge-temp.
(I'm very much into Celsius temp readings, but check the Quest 101 for where to start...)
While it's good to experience what happens when you do this and that, try out some tried and tested reciepies, like: charge 150g at 240C/450F with no airflow and 25% heat. Wait until the beans come down to turning point (100C/200F) after e.g. 1.30 where you rise the power to some 80% or so. After some 4-6 minutes you should reach 150C/300F where you can ever so slightly decrease power (to 75% and then continue to decrease e.g. 5% every minute or so). By 8-10 minutes you should hear a popping sound, like popcorn and the bean temp should be (203C/400F). That is the start of first crack. At that sound, increase air to 50% (or more) and be prepared to adjust the power. Continue to gradually decrease the power until the roast is done.
In this rambling you can also find a "normal" roast profile, i.e. drop at 450F, after 1.30 you're at 200F BT and temp should accelerate nice and even until 1C which should start around 8-10 minutes. From there try to even out, without going flat, for 2-4 minutes more. (There is a math. name for that kind of curve, but I've forgotten it... decreasing accelaration without going flat...)
Q4. I want to start with your last question: First vs. second crack. Second crack is difficult to hear for anyone, but you should be able to hear first. If you have the roaster hooked up to RoastMaster and the TC's are reading correctly, you should be able to see when 1C is coming.

Also: Do check out SweetMarias guide to how the beans look etc. I would say that is the standard which most of the discussions agree about. It's been invaluable to me for gaugeing where I'm at with temps and bean color.

Q3: yes, it should be at 150C.

Q2: All my amps go to 11! (If you know what I'm talking about, rock on... ) It's an electrical potentiometer worth a couple of $$$. Nothing more. Make your own markings, e.g. split it in 5 or 10 divisions and try to put it into your profile in RoastMaster. (I'm with Artisan where I can (manually) do that. I take it it's doable in RoastMaster as well, given the cost of the software.)

It's helpful to refer to first crack as 1cs (for first start) and second crack as 2cs. This is a common abbreviation here on HB and eliminates confusion especially as FC is typically used to refer to a roast level of Full City. As for distinguishing the cracks, 1c is much like popcorn popping, while 2c is much like the noise rice crispies make when you first add milk to them. It is possible for first to go right into second, but that typically happens when you're roasting too fast. I think a successful roast has 3 to 4 minutes between 1cs and 2cs. It's helpful to anticipate 1cs and slow the bean temperature rise between the 2 cracks.

A couple questions might help us help you:

What weights were the batches you were roasting?
What temperature (BT probe) was the roaster at just before you dropped the beans in and started the roasts?
What were your heat and fan settings throughout the roasts?

1. I've never had first crack start that soon. I'm usually just finishing the drying phase, or close to it, by that time.

2. My fan goes to 8.6 or 8.7 as well. No biggy. That's max, simple as that.

3. Some people don't like the term "drying phase", so don't get too hung up on it. Some people say it's from a certain temperature to a certain temperature (I can't remember exactly), meaning that the time from when you drop in the beans and part of the turnaround don't count. Again, don't worry about it too much. Most people just refer to it as the whole amount of time from when you drop in your beans until a BT of approximately 150-155°C. There are more precise definitions, though.

4. The two should be distinct enough. First crack should happen around BT 200°C +/- 5°C, depending. Second crack should happen sometime after 220°C. Second crack will be quieter, but I think you'll notice it, too. So long as your roast isn't going too fast (ie. the power is too high), there'll be a lull between the two where there's no popping/cracking sound, just the roaster noise.

There may be a difference between the Huky (gas) and the Quest (electric), or between edtbjon's roasting method and others. I don't know if other Quest users would decrease heat after the drying phase has ended. I usually crank it higher, actually, but I decrease heat/power about a minute before the expected onset of first crack. See what others say.

I have been using steady 150g batches and dropping at 200C (BT). Fan/heat settings were similar to Jim Schulmann's method that he posted a while back. I would let the Quest warm up to 200C, using max heat, fan at about 7. I keep the trap door open as suggested. Seems to keep the MET at bay.

As I mentioned, I even putzed around before going to that second batch. The cracks were unmistakable at about 4:39. Like microwave popcorn.

Good to know about the fan. Thanks! I didn't know if it was an indexing issue or not. If I recipe calls for "6", then 6 should be in the 12 O'clock.

In any event, I will keep plugging away keeping it at 150g batches with the same bean. I want to understand what goes on and when. See if I can pick up between first and second crack. Then I can tinker.

I don't know if there is a difference between 'newer' M3's and what Jim's running - but I had no luck with the trap door open method.

I do use a Kill-a-watt to monitor power... at a minimum I have a 'reference' point to denote. My typical roast:
Drop at BT around 325-350 / Power / 6-7Amps / Fan on 2-3 (you want this fairly low but you want airflow for sure)
At 300@ / Power up to 9-1Amps / Fan a bit more 3-4
At FC / Power down to 5 Amps / Fan Full

Good luck...

The trap door open method did not work very well for me either.

Yes its been established that there are differences in the newer models, particularly with air flow control. I have a 240V model, after conversion your method is pretty close to my base line settings for a 2014 M3, in particular for my filter / brewing roasts where I want a slower start - extended drying time and a fast ramp to FC followed by 1.5 to 2min development. Total roast times of 12.30 - 13.30.

For espresso I prefer a slower pace, roast times 14 to 16min, 150C BT charge / 200g. Set close to max heat settings with fan on zero (still good airflow - negative pressure) just before dropping the beans in. Gradually reduce amps from 100BT onwards and increase airflow after 150c(300f).

I only use the max 7 to 8 fan settings right near the end to clear smoke and fine control ROR

musicphan wrote:I don't know if there is a difference between 'newer' M3's and what Jim's running - but I had no luck with the trap door open method.

I do use a Kill-a-watt to monitor power... at a minimum I have a 'reference' point to denote. My typical roast:
Drop at BT around 325-350 / Power / 6-7Amps / Fan on 2-3 (you want this fairly low but you want airflow for sure)
At 300@ / Power up to 9-1Amps / Fan a bit more 3-4
At FC / Power down to 5 Amps / Fan Full

Good luck...

I am new to all of this, but my research with with the Quest indicated that the newer models had thinner drums?? Mine has a manufacture date of 06/14. The older models had thicker drums. I also have no immediate plans to paint the drum. From what I understand, it has to do with heat efficiency?

If I may ask, what did keeping the trap door open do for your roast that it did not work for you? I looked at my past roast data and none went above 205C MET. Would this be a detriment to the roast overall? It was mentioned to me that I should not allow the MET to exceed 275C, which my very first roast hit in the 280s!

Thanks for your input!

I just got my Quest M3 (newer model made in 2013). I can't comment on the painting of the drum, but for me, keeping the trap door open helps with letting the initial steam vent during the drying phase, so that you can see when that's done (roughly between 150C and 160C or so). Otherwise you can just guess or go by temp, but some beans are wetter than others. With the newer models, since the fan can't be turned off, you need to keep the back cooling door open as well, so that the fan doesn't suck that air through the recirculating tube as would be done normally.

To your last question, it looks like maybe your first number should be 205C BT instead of MET? If that's the case, I don't see much problem, just try to roast until you hear 2nd crack for a couple roasts so that you know what temp your probe will read at for 2nd crack. Consider it a learning experience in both roasting and tasting. I'd suggest a cheaper bean, something like a Brazilian coffee as a test in case you end up not liking a darker roast. But I find cutting near the start of the first snaps of second crack to be a usual target for me.

My final suggestion in general would be to attempt to keep everything the same for a number of roasts. Forget about different "recipes" and what other people are doing for a while, just go for some general guidelines and fix as many variables as you can. Pick up 5-10 lbs of the same coffee, try to stick with the same "recipe/profile", keep the same charge weight and same drop temp. And roast to the same level a couple times, then try doing exactly the same start with a different roast level finish. After tasting these differences you can find out more about what you may prefer or what may suit the bean your are roasting....and keep notes! After some time, with your notes, you may be able to guess the correct "recipe" and roast level for a given bean, but likely trying out a few different ones will always be ideal.