La Marzocco GS3 vacuum breaker valve leaking again

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
_OlTimer
Posts: 54
Joined: 11 years ago

#1: Post by _OlTimer »

I purchased a new La Marzocco GS3 auto in Feb. 2013. I had to replace the vacuum breaker valve in May of this year. I ordered the complete assembly. Now, not quite 6 months later, it is leaking again. The machine is programmed on from 6 AM until 10 PM.

Should I be looking at something causing the valve to fail? Temps and pressures are at normal ranges as set at the factory. Maybe I just got a bad replacement part?

User avatar
HB
Admin
Posts: 22021
Joined: 19 years ago

#2: Post by HB »

Is your water really hard? It's possible the vacuum breaker is failing to seal because of scale buildup.
Dan Kehn

Advertisement
_OlTimer (original poster)
Posts: 54
Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by _OlTimer (original poster) »

No. I am using treated (softened) water through a filter. There was no evidence of scale on the original valve I replaced. Thanks for the quick reply.

lain2097
Posts: 91
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by lain2097 »

Ol'Timer wrote:The machine is programmed on from 6 AM until 10 PM.
In my experience, that's your problem right there. Anti-depression valves don't take much scale to stop sealing, I never had good luck with on and off routines on any HX (now DB) machine I've owned over the last ten or so years. Hence why now I always leave them on 24/7. Even so called 'softened' water still has the potential to scale in the most inconvenient crevices.

I fear even a new replacement valve will suffer the same fate under these conditions in my opinion.

User avatar
Peppersass
Supporter ❤
Posts: 3691
Joined: 15 years ago

#5: Post by Peppersass »

The valve is not defective. Six months to a year is a pretty normal service interval for the GS/3 vacuum breaker in my experience, and a number of other GS/3 owners have reported similar intervals here. You just have to accept that it's part of the normal maintenance routine required by any machine (such as replacing O-rings on the MP version).

Rather than replacing the entire valve, you may be able to simply clean the internal parts -- an O-ring, a valve stem and a Teflon valve seat -- in diluted white vinegar. Or, you can replace those parts. That's my preference, as it always works, takes less time and is inexpensive. In fact, some have found that replacing just the O-ring works. It depends on the level of contamination. The parts are available from LM USA or your dealer. You can buy a complete rebuild kit consisting of all three parts, or you can buy just O-rings. Or both. I recommend you get a couple of the kits and some extra O-rings. That will set you back less than $25 including shipping.

To clean or replace the parts, you have to remove the valve from the elbow fitting, then remove the male-male fitting at the bottom of the valve to get to the parts. Don't remove the cap on the top -- that won't get you anywhere. If the O-ring is intact, but the parts show signs of mineral contamination, you can try cleaning the parts. If the O-ring is worn out or deformed, replace it. If you can't clean the deposits off the valve stem or Teflon seat, replace them. If the valve seat looks pitted, replace it.

I don't believe the contamination problem is due to scale, per se. I use a cation (salt-based) softening system that completely removes scale-causing hardness. But it doesn't remove all the minerals from the water. Far from it. The TDS is still over 100 ppm and the Alkalinity is about 130 ppm.

I believe what happens is that a combination of water and steam sputters into the valve as it evacuates air from the boiler, and some of it falls on the valve stem, O-ring and seat. When you turn the machine off, and the valve opens, the residual water evaporates and leaves mineral deposits behind. It looks like a very fine powder in my case. Eventually the deposits build up and prevent the vacuum breaker from sealing. I think it's also the case that the O-ring wears out much faster when you cycle the valve every day, as opposed to running the machine 24/7. When the O-ring wears out, the valve leaks.

BTW, a leaking vacuum breaker was really bad back before LM came up with the valve and tube that empties into the drain box. When the valve got stuck open, steam would leak into the machine, condense, and form pools of water on the chassis floor that could leak into the brain box and destroy the logic board. Back then, I ran my machine 24/7 to avoid that potential disaster. But when the upgrade came out I installed it and went back to turning off the machine on a daily basis. I prefer servicing the vacuum breaker ever 6 months to a year versus the unnecessary consumption of electricity.

_OlTimer (original poster)
Posts: 54
Joined: 11 years ago

#6: Post by _OlTimer (original poster) »

Thanks for the replies. Dick, your information is exactly what I'm looking for. I have no problem rebuilding the valve, I just wanted assurance that there was not something else causing the problem. I ordered a couple of lower ends last time I placed an order and will replace the valve parts.

I'm just curious, do commercial installations let their machines run 24/7?

contraflow88
Supporter ♡
Posts: 176
Joined: 10 years ago

#7: Post by contraflow88 »

Most do simply, because it alleviates the consumption of power up energy and also problems such as yours. Many chose to have these types of machines on 24/7 because they are convinced that heating up and cooling down makes scale conditions worsen and parts such vacuum breakers more problematic.

Advertisement
lain2097
Posts: 91
Joined: 10 years ago

#8: Post by lain2097 »

Well the 24/7 always on has been discussed at length however I always leave my machines on because of all that yes. Plus it's always ready to go for a decaf or hot water for tea / soups for the rest of the household to use. At least where I live as well the energy costs are a non-issue considering just replacing a fitting or valve is many months worth of hydro electricity. Bonus for us northerners that it augments heating during our long winters :wink:

Ever since just leaving the espresso machine on I never have problems with leaky anti-depression, safety blow off, boiler flanges, auto fill and so on.

Yes most usual commercial installs tend to be on 24/7 - real commercial machines are designed to be on always. Rinky dink home machines can be cycled as that's their service life.