All of my shots taste like ash
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- Posts: 57
- Joined: 12 years ago
Over the past couple of months and several different brands of espresso (Intelli, Stumptown, Metropolis, Counter Culture), I have struggled to pull a decent shot with my Alexia and Vario. I recently had a PID installed, and the machine was cleaned at the same time, but lately, all of my shots taste like ash.
I have changed my dose, adjusted the temp and grind, but I am no longer getting the bright flavors I used to. The one thing I have noticed is that, no matter what I do, the extraction is always uneven. Sometimes I get two streams, other times there are dead spots in my bottomless portafilter.
That said, since the machine is clean (I backflush every weekend and only pull a max of 10 shots per week), could it be my basket that is the issue? Would it be worthwhile to try a VST or the Strada basket? I am just stumped and frustrated.
Thanks in advance.
I have changed my dose, adjusted the temp and grind, but I am no longer getting the bright flavors I used to. The one thing I have noticed is that, no matter what I do, the extraction is always uneven. Sometimes I get two streams, other times there are dead spots in my bottomless portafilter.
That said, since the machine is clean (I backflush every weekend and only pull a max of 10 shots per week), could it be my basket that is the issue? Would it be worthwhile to try a VST or the Strada basket? I am just stumped and frustrated.
Thanks in advance.
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Typically ashy taste is associated with a high temp. Perhaps your PID temp. is set too high and also what is the dose and length of time for your shot? A recommendation would be to get a scale so that you can weigh your dose and and your shot, this results in more consistent shots. You'll save yourself a lot of time doing this.
Also a good thing to look for is distribution in the PF. Often time poor grounds distribution can lead to a poor extraction. My biggest challenge was nailing the tamp and making sure to tamp evenly and consistently, I would recommend a basket with a ridge so that when you tamp you can see how even the tamped bed is to the ridge.
Also a good thing to look for is distribution in the PF. Often time poor grounds distribution can lead to a poor extraction. My biggest challenge was nailing the tamp and making sure to tamp evenly and consistently, I would recommend a basket with a ridge so that when you tamp you can see how even the tamped bed is to the ridge.
- Terranova
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It sounds more like having an issue with the grinder.pearlmikejam wrote: The one thing I have noticed is that, no matter what I do, the extraction is always uneven. Sometimes I get two streams, other times there are dead spots in my bottomless portafilter.
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All good points above.
1. Your boiler temp is probably too hot - leading to ashy flavors. I'd just back it off 10F or 5C to see how much difference that makes.
2. Your grind could be too fine, but that's hard to know. Sometimes really fine grind contributes to ashy flavors, especially when the water is already a little hot.
3. Your tamp might need some help? I wonder if you are fracturing the puck with your tamp, especially if it's really fine grind this can lead to channeling very easily.
Dose your beans by weight ideally when trying to diagnose things. If not, at least dose by volume either before or after grind. (Before: all beans fit level below the rim of the PF basket before grinding. After: Fill basket and then swipe off extra grinds. Either will get you in the ball park of a repeatable dose.)
Weighing your pull can also help in diagnosis, but I'll leave that for later.
Tamp. Do a lighter tamp. Bringing the tamper to equal level around the edge of the basket with one smooth move. Try not to twist the tamper in case that's causing an issue. (I do a light twist with no force at the end of my tamps, but when troubleshooting leave out all extra actions if possible.) Lock and pull.
1. Your boiler temp is probably too hot - leading to ashy flavors. I'd just back it off 10F or 5C to see how much difference that makes.
2. Your grind could be too fine, but that's hard to know. Sometimes really fine grind contributes to ashy flavors, especially when the water is already a little hot.
3. Your tamp might need some help? I wonder if you are fracturing the puck with your tamp, especially if it's really fine grind this can lead to channeling very easily.
Dose your beans by weight ideally when trying to diagnose things. If not, at least dose by volume either before or after grind. (Before: all beans fit level below the rim of the PF basket before grinding. After: Fill basket and then swipe off extra grinds. Either will get you in the ball park of a repeatable dose.)
Weighing your pull can also help in diagnosis, but I'll leave that for later.
Tamp. Do a lighter tamp. Bringing the tamper to equal level around the edge of the basket with one smooth move. Try not to twist the tamper in case that's causing an issue. (I do a light twist with no force at the end of my tamps, but when troubleshooting leave out all extra actions if possible.) Lock and pull.
LMWDP #445
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- Posts: 57
- Joined: 12 years ago
Thanks for all the replies!!!
To clarify, here is what I have tried. I use a scale and "stir" my ground beans in the portafilter to break up any clumps. The tamp is the only thing I do not measure, but I have reasonably tried to use varying degrees of pressure as best I can, with minimal change.
Weight - 18g and 19g
Temp - 197F to 203F (with one degree increments)
Extraction - 1.5 to 2 oz in 25 to 30 seconds (almost always 27 seconds)
The odd part about this is that I was getting much better shots after the PID and then it all went south on me. I had been getting great shots in the 201 to 203F range. I read Stumptown is better around 197, but even that made little difference. It just does not seem like I should be below 195.
Based on the additional information where do I start? I feel like a golfer who lost his swing and cannot find it (and I do not play golf).
Thanks for the help!
To clarify, here is what I have tried. I use a scale and "stir" my ground beans in the portafilter to break up any clumps. The tamp is the only thing I do not measure, but I have reasonably tried to use varying degrees of pressure as best I can, with minimal change.
Weight - 18g and 19g
Temp - 197F to 203F (with one degree increments)
Extraction - 1.5 to 2 oz in 25 to 30 seconds (almost always 27 seconds)
The odd part about this is that I was getting much better shots after the PID and then it all went south on me. I had been getting great shots in the 201 to 203F range. I read Stumptown is better around 197, but even that made little difference. It just does not seem like I should be below 195.
Based on the additional information where do I start? I feel like a golfer who lost his swing and cannot find it (and I do not play golf).
Thanks for the help!
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Well I would use the recommended temp. that the roaster provides. Also for this particular roast you might have to run the shots a bit faster it seems so, maybe do a shot from 15-25 seconds. I've experienced this with a specific blend and I swore it was my grinder but once I tried a slightly looser shot timing, I was able to bring out some excellent flavor notes and get rid of the ashy taste.
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- Posts: 57
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Thanks everyone. I am pulling Intelli now and I believe that is recommended at 200F. I will make my grind a little coarser and see if a quicker shot helps.
Thanks for all of the recommendations.
Does anyone have experience with other baskets? Just curious. The articles from a few years ago seem to debate the improvements with VST. I have a cheap Espresso Parts basket that has bee fine, but am curious if a $30 change would make an improvement.
Thanks for all of the recommendations.
Does anyone have experience with other baskets? Just curious. The articles from a few years ago seem to debate the improvements with VST. I have a cheap Espresso Parts basket that has bee fine, but am curious if a $30 change would make an improvement.
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When last did you clean and calibrate your Vario?
If it's a fairly new one, occasionally some dust will find it's way under the lower burr.
In that case, it can really affect the evenness of the grind. In any case, I'd remove the hopper, upper burr, and vacuum the grinder clean. Thoroughly clean the upper burr with the provided brush, making sure the edges are spotless as well. Use compressed air in the groove of each arm, Macro and Micro, and run them up and down a couple of times.
Finally, perform a new calibration, using the method described in the manual. Recently, Kyle from Baratza mentioned that folks should not be afraid to hear what appears to be "burr rub" noise. When the motor slows PERCEPTIBLY, THEN your dialed in. From what I'm hearing, MOST folks are around 1 step down from the top Macro, about 1/3 to 1/2 down from the top Micro. YMMV a bit, depending on the bean, and it's roast style.
If it's a fairly new one, occasionally some dust will find it's way under the lower burr.
In that case, it can really affect the evenness of the grind. In any case, I'd remove the hopper, upper burr, and vacuum the grinder clean. Thoroughly clean the upper burr with the provided brush, making sure the edges are spotless as well. Use compressed air in the groove of each arm, Macro and Micro, and run them up and down a couple of times.
Finally, perform a new calibration, using the method described in the manual. Recently, Kyle from Baratza mentioned that folks should not be afraid to hear what appears to be "burr rub" noise. When the motor slows PERCEPTIBLY, THEN your dialed in. From what I'm hearing, MOST folks are around 1 step down from the top Macro, about 1/3 to 1/2 down from the top Micro. YMMV a bit, depending on the bean, and it's roast style.
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- Posts: 57
- Joined: 12 years ago
Thanks! I have not cleaned the grinder in a couple of months. I used to run Grindz through it every time I changed roasts, but read that was overkill, given how little I use my grinder relative to others.
I was actually thinking of calibration. Now that you mention it, I am in a finer grind setting that I historically have been (1 down macro, but only 2 steps down on the micro). I may be out of calibration.
Thanks again!
I was actually thinking of calibration. Now that you mention it, I am in a finer grind setting that I historically have been (1 down macro, but only 2 steps down on the micro). I may be out of calibration.
Thanks again!
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- Posts: 3472
- Joined: 19 years ago
U betcha! For me, there is NOTHING like a hands on cleaning, no Grindz, though it's a fine product.
In 10 minutes, you have things as good as they can be. This may really help, and at worst it was time to clean your Vario anyhow.
I clean mine usually abut once a month, more if I've gone through a LOT of coffee. If you go back and forth, as I do, cleaning regularly is always a good idea.
In 10 minutes, you have things as good as they can be. This may really help, and at worst it was time to clean your Vario anyhow.
I clean mine usually abut once a month, more if I've gone through a LOT of coffee. If you go back and forth, as I do, cleaning regularly is always a good idea.