Today I got bizarre tamping advice

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maccompatible
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#1: Post by maccompatible »

I've been using a local roaster's beans for espresso, but haven't been getting as nice of a crema as the store does. Today while stocking up on beans I asked them for advice. The barista offered to walk me through his technique. He grinded over the rim and leveled off the portafilter, exactly as one would expect. Then he gave the coffee a VERY light tamp and told me he likes to press only a little harder than the weight of the tamper (it couldn't have been more than 5lbs). I was perplexed because everyone suggests around 30lbs and no less than 15lbs. However, he locked in the PF and pulled a great shot, both in looks and taste.

I'm still new to this game, but I'm baffled as to how he pulled a great shot with that technique.
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keno
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#2: Post by keno »

Tamping pressure makes relatively little to no difference in the shot:
Espresso: how to find your grind vs. how strong you tamp

Usually lack of crema is due to stale beans. But if you are using fresh beans, then lack of crema could be a temperature or pressure issue. Have you checked the temp and pump pressure of your machine? Also, how is your extraction otherwise? Are you getting a 1.5 to 2.0 ounce double in about 25 seconds? Do you have a naked portafilter? That might help you to better assess your shots.

You might take a look at this link:
Diagnosing Espresso Extraction Problems - Espresso Guide

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maccompatible (original poster)
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#3: Post by maccompatible (original poster) »

Well, I'm getting crema. Just not as much as I believe I should. The pictures are right after one of my better shots. By weight, it's an excellent brew ratio (2:1). It pulled in the right time. And it tasted excellent. Not too different in taste from what's prepared at the store. I'm positive I use less coffee (leveling off as they do is around 18g, and I'm weighing out 15 for each shot). My only problem is that I'm not getting near the amount of crema that they do using the exact same beans.

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keno
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#4: Post by keno »

maccompatible wrote:Well, I'm getting crema. Just not as much as I believe I should. . . . And it tasted excellent. Not too different in taste from what's prepared at the store. . . . My only problem is that I'm not getting near the amount of crema that they do using the exact same beans.
Based on that statement do you really have a problem? Isn't taste ultimately what matters, not how much crema you think you should be getting? Grind, dose, distribution plays a big part so focus on that. The Vario should be a capable grinder, but what grinder and espresso machine was your local cafe using? Make no mistake, with superior equipment they will pull a better shot.

But don't worry too much about it, some have even suggested that crema is "rubbish":
"Crema is Rubbish"

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CoruscatingCoffee
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#5: Post by CoruscatingCoffee »

I recently rebuilt a commercial Nuova Simonelli 2 group and the crema that pours out of that machine makes my La Pavoni Pro and Baby Gaggia pale, side-by-side, with the same beans and technique. Well, the La Pavoni requires a lighter tamp, and pours out a slightly more nuanced shot when all my barista skills are in synch (but never as much crema). The NS makes a very good shot, with lots of crema, even when my WDT is lacking.
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HB
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#6: Post by HB »

maccompatible wrote:My only problem is that I'm not getting near the amount of crema that they do using the exact same beans.
My guess is that your machine's brew pressure is lower than the cafe's. Given that you're happy with the taste, I consider the lower crema production a non-issue. But if you want to experiment, try increasing the brew pressure.
Dan Kehn

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cannonfodder
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#7: Post by cannonfodder »

I use a light tamp, I only use my fingertips to hold the tamper ball. I give it a nutating swirl, light press and pull my shots. All a tamp does is pack the puck and remove any air pockets. The real key is in the distribution. The worlds hardest tamp will not make up for bad distribution, but a bad tamp (i.e. crooked) will destroy the best distribution and ruin the shot. As long as you are consistent with the technique and the coffee is good, you are doing it right.
Dave Stephens

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maccompatible (original poster)
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#8: Post by maccompatible (original poster) »

HB wrote:My guess is that your machine's brew pressure is lower than the cafe's.
I'm almost positive that's the case. A cheap, old, used Carezza vs. a nice commercial dual boiler.
HB wrote:Given that you're happy with the taste, I consider the lower crema production a non-issue.
Yeah. I'm not terribly worried about it. It's just the last major thing I could think of to try to improve on my shots, and since the biggest difference between mine and the café's technique was tamp pressure I was curious if that was impacting my shots. Now that I know tamp pressure doesn't matter too much, the only real factor left would be the machine.
HB wrote:if you want to experiment, try increasing the brew pressure.
I don't think that's an option on my machine. Ah well. Thanks for the help!
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RogerAN
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#9: Post by RogerAN »

[quote="keno"]Tamping pressure makes relatively little to no difference in the shot:
Espresso: how to find your grind vs. how strong you tamp

Today I was preparing my second shot and had carefully weighed and distributed the coffee in the PF basket when the doorbell rang. After quickly taking care of that matter, I came back in, did a quick cooling flush, and inserted the PF in my machine. I pulled the lever, and suddenly realized that I had not tamped the coffee at all. I expected a gusher, but 20g in, 36.2g out, in 29 seconds, and it was actually a decent shot. Wasn't using my bottomless PF so I don't know what it looked like as flowing, but I guess tamping pressure does make relatively little difference in the shot :roll:

maccompatible (original poster)
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#10: Post by maccompatible (original poster) »

RogerAN wrote:I pulled the lever, and suddenly realized that I had not tamped the coffee at all.
I'd love to try this at some point. I'm sure I'll do it accidentally at some point or another, though. I have been playing with lighter and heavier tamps, keeping everything else the same, and have found very little reliable difference in my shots.

I just wonder how people like this see such large differences when tamping with different pressures.

http://youtu.be/1B-4flQzb6I
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