Hi
I have an rather old ECM Giotto which has served me good.
But lately it has begun making a clicking sound about 30 minutes after power on.
When the clicking sound occurs the pressure would not build up anymore and only solution is to turn it off for 5 minutes and try again.

I have been looking into different solutions.
1. replace the Gicar
2. Replace the pressurestat.

But I can not find the correct Gicar and pressurestat.

The Gicar is:
rl30
9.1.40.56

I do not see anything on the pressurestat.

Any ideas on what to buy?

Will this Gicar work?
http://www.espressoxxl.de/cgi-bin/shop. ... bieterID=1

But which Pressurestat?

And all in all, will this solve my problem?

I hope someone could guide me.
My wife needs her cappuccino real bad

Best regards
Anton
(Sorry for my bad English it is not my native language)

Anton -
My old ECM Giotto is different than yours, and I've not seen your particular symptom, but I'll offer some help anyway since it's been a day or two and you've had no replies.

When you say that it makes a clicking sound, I assume that it comes up to pressure, clicks once, then stops heating. I assume the light stays on.

These machines came in a variety of wiring schemes, with four different controllers. I'm under the impression that the ones like yours with the RL-30 were wired like the 'RL30 Pre 2005 modification' diagram shown in this parts catalog. Might be good if you can confirm that. If so, you have a machine where the pressure switch takes the full load of the element, and that would increase the odds that it might be a failed pressure switch.

However, I think it would be better to do some electrical troubleshooting before jumping in and replacing parts. Some of that is best done with a voltage meter, and requires some know-how to do safely and properly. For example, if you were to jumper in a voltmeter onto the pressure switch terminals and run the machine you could tell if the switch was operating correctly. Or you could temporarily rewire the pressure switch so that it gets power directly, bypassing the controller, and see if that fixes it.

A common failure for these machines is a problem with the reservoir probe. Usually does not match your symptom, but always worth checking out. If your machine has the reservoir probe similar to the one in this post: Diagnosing Dead ECM Giotto , then the first thing to suspect would be a bad reservoir probe connection. If you ground that probe sensor wire and the symptom goes away, then you don't need a pressurestat or controller fix. Sometimes you can just press down hard where the reservoir probe sits on the probe rest, and see if that brings it back to life.

Anton_dk wrote:Will this Gicar work?
http://www.espressoxxl.de/cgi-bin/shop. ... bieterID=1

Unfortunately, that link only works for your session, so the rest of us can't see what it refers to. But searching that site I saw that they do sell a 9.1.40.56/9.1.40.56G. That would be a perfectly good replacement. (The 56 and 56G are functionally identical - the one ending in a G is RoHS conformant.)

Anton_dk wrote:I do not see anything on the pressurestat.
Any ideas on what to buy?

Your machine probably came with a MaTER, and if so can be replaced with either that or a CEME. These are commonly sold by espresso machine parts suppliers - be sure to get one that is adjustable down in the .6 - 1.2 bar range, handles 250V and 15 or 16Amp, and has the 1/8" male thread that I think you need. (check your old one to be sure.) If your current one happens to be a Sirai, and if it needs replacing then stick with that. It's big and pricy, but more than adequate to handle all the amperage that goes to your element. (I'm not sure whether a Sirai will even fit in an ECM or a Rocket classic Giotto.)

In my last post I neglected to mention another important thing to check - the thermal safety switch. I don't think it would make an audible clicking sound, but is always easy and important to check. The best way to check, especially if it's misbehaving intermittently, is to just temporarily bypass it so that the live wire to that switch goes straight to the pressurestat terminal.* If that fixes it, you can use the machine with it bypassed while you order a replacement. (Just don't leave it on unattended while that protective switch is bypassed.)

*edit addition - of course, depends on how your machine is wired. I think your heater circuit is: power switch - controller - thermal switch - pressure switch - element. Is possible that you might have the thermal switch between the pressure switch and the element in which case you would connect the pressure switch directly to the element in order to bypass the thermal safety switch.

Hi Pat
Thank you for your very good response.
I will be trying it out tonight.


Best regards
Anton

Hi Pat
Thank you very much for your help.
I replaced the Gicar with the box I found on the German site.
It worked perfectly.

I know that I could replace something inside the Gicar box.
I will get an old friend to look at it and replace the part, if it is broken.

I did not replace the pStat but I have it as a spare now.

Best regards
Anton

Check your pstat. The ECM I just picked up had a Sarai, which might have been added later. It has three sets of contacts, and when the Sarai comes up to pressure it makes a clicking sound. If the contacts are fried it won't make good contact and the element won't energize. If that's the case, just move the wires to one of the unused contact sets.

If it doesn't have a Sarai, replacing the pstat might be the best way forward.

If the machine has a Sarai, as it is also advisable to replace the diaphragm every couple of years.

homeburrero wrote: (I'm not sure whether a Sirai will even fit in an ECM or a Rocket classic Giotto.)

cuppajoe wrote:The ECM I just picked up had a Sarai, which might have been added later.

David's (cuppajoe) is the first ECM Giotto I've heard of with a Sirai. Probably added later but does answer the question as to whether one will fit in an ECM (or a Rocket classic) Giotto. In his pic, looks like it's on the standard pStat pipe.

The Sirai is rated for more amperage, and has a spare contact set, so if you have one of the Giottos where the pStat carries the element voltage (which depends on which controller and wiring scheme you have) it would be a good choice. (And I think yours (Anton's), with the RL30, does put the full element load through the pStat.)

But in your (Anton's) particular case, since you now have two working pStats for your machine I'm not sure switching to the Sirai would be worth the expense.

Edit addition: David (cuppajoe) ended up replacing the Sirai on his Giotto. It fit, but poorly - was pressed up against the side of the side panel. (see ECM Giotto Project )