considering how cheap PIDs are, they should just be on everything.

I would really like it on the Evo but what I have been told no PID for the Evo this year.

OH well.
Here is a great look at the PP by Seattle Coffee Gear

With all of the ongoing discussion regarding PIDs on HX machines, does anyone else think the SCG video seems misleading about how a PID alters the process or changes the way an HX machine works?

Misleading is an understatement. How many times does it have to be said that a PID on a HX WILL NOT regulate temperature at the group; you'll still need to perform a cooling flush if you have it set so you can brew AND steam.

If it were as simle as adding a PID to a HX QuickMill, Vibiemme, Expobar, Izzo, Rocket, etc would have never developed a double boiler.

You can dial the PID down so you don't have to flush, but then you won't have any steaming power. You simply cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Ian (cafeIke) did this years ago and developed a workaround. You can read about it here

uscfroadie wrote:a PID on a HX WILL NOT regulate temperature at the group;

Agreed, but other things being constant, a PID + temperature sensor will reduce the variations that mechanical pressure stats cause.

You can dial the PID down so you don't have to flush, but then you won't have any steaming power.

Which is reasonable for people who either don't need steam, have other sources for it or can wait for the temperature to increase.

So yes a PID will not regulate temp at the group. But does the DB R58? it is my understanding that the service boiler temp plus a chart in the manual determines the group temp. Not sure how accurate that is.
Perhaps I'm working my way out of my price range to get a machine that has more accurate group temp control?

jonr wrote:Which is reasonable for people who either don't need steam, have other sources for it or can wait for the temperature to increase.

If that's the case, I have to ask why get a HX over a much cheaper PID'd SBDU, such as an Alexia? On mine I would pull the shot and flip on the heating element at the same time to keep the incoming water from the reservoir from dropping the temp in the boiler as the ~2 ounces were drawn out for the shot. About 45 seconds after the shot was done I was steaming. Once done steaming, I'd vent the pressure out the steam wand to return the boiler to the normal set point of 225 degrees. Doing so allowed me to be able to pull another shot within a few minutes.

For a street price of about $1200 you'd have money left over for a lever, which you could use for your additional source of steam. I did just that, and could pull and steam at the same time but also had a light portable machine to take on trips versus lugging around the Alexia. Once up to temp, the Alexia used very little power to stay at brew temp, making it possible to run my lever (Gaggia Factory) on the same 15 amp circuit at the same time.

jonr wrote:Agreed, but other things being constant, a PID + temperature sensor will reduce the variations that mechanical pressure stats cause.

True, but that does not translate to lower temps at the grouphead, so you still need to do a cooling flush. Getting rid of the dead band of a pressurestat will net you about a ~2-3 degree F difference in the boiler, but that will not produce a ~2-3 degree lower temp at the grouphead.

jonr wrote:Agreed, but other things being constant, a PID + temperature sensor will reduce the variations that mechanical pressure stats cause.

So?

Rich