Hario to Kyocera CM-45 - practical comparison

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
ChileBean
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#1: Post by ChileBean »

I just acquired a Hario Skerton hand grinder after having used a friend's Kyocera CM-45, and I have a few quick observations I thought might be useful to others considering hand grinders. Before I begin, a little context.

I enjoy good espresso, and I regularly drink two per day. Except on rare occasion I do not drink any other kind of coffee, and I am not interested in using the grinder for pour-over, drip, or other preparation methods - only espresso. Since I only drink two doubles per day, and because I am the only coffee drinker in the house, hand grinding is a great option. Besides, it gives me time to meditate and enjoy 'making coffee'. Hey, if I wanted to just grab a cup of coffee, I would go to the drive-through at McDonalds. After all, what difference does it make if I am not present (mentally) to enjoy the coffee I make. At the risk of getting too deep on my first posting, let me stop here.

- I tried to buy my own Kyocera CM-45, but it appears they are now out of production. I ordered mine on Amazon from an outfit in Japan in the middle of January. By the first of March, I canceled my order and called Seattle Coffee Gear. I ordered the Hario and two days later, BAM - there it was in my mail box.

- The CM-45 was my first choice. I tried one and I really liked it. It is just about infinitely adjustable (very fine clicks to adjust the grind), it fit my hands well (medium-sized hands), and it did what it says in the advertising on the outside of the tin.

- The Hario adjusts by a step adjustment that is a little hard to describe, but the adjustment seems to be fine enough between settings to provide the tuning I need to get what I want.

- The Hario is a bigger device. I am told that it has the same ceramic burrs as the CM-45. This may be true, and they certainly look similar, but the ones in the CM-45 were white, and the ones in the Hario are sort of a charcoal color. Anyway, they look almost identical to me. (I do not have the CM-45 here, so I cannot do more in terms of comparing the units.).

- Both grinders produce light fluffy grounds with that wonderful 'just ground' coffee smell. (Gee - imagine that.)

- The Hario is a larger grinder. Definitely still a hand grinder, but after using the CM-45, when I went to pick up the Hario at the post office, my first thought was, "gee - that's a big box". This is not necessarily a good thing for me, but might be better for someone who is grinding a bunch of coarse stuff for drip or whatever. For me, the CM-45 fit my hands much better than the Hario. On the other hand, I play racquetball, so having to squeeze the larger grinder for a few minutes twice a day will probably improve my game.

- The CM-45 would dump right into the portafilter without having to worry about spilling because the jar just about exactly fit into the filter. The Hario has a much larger mouth on the glass jar, so I have to be more careful emptying the coffee into the portafilter.

- Both the CM-45 and the Hario can be set fine enough to choke my machine, so that is a good thing.

That's all for now. So the meta-question is, what good is it to compare an unavailable hand grinder to an available grinder.

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Burner0000
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#2: Post by Burner0000 »

No hands on with the CM-45 but I am currently using the Skerton exclusively for espresso. Swap out the stepped adjust disk with an M8 nyloc/posilock nut and you got yourself a stepless Hario Skerton. The nut holds it's place well too. I haven't had to re adjust yet. PM me if you decide to take that route and have anymore questions.

The mod itself cost's less than $1.
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..

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yakster
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#3: Post by yakster »

With these sorts of grinders, grinding fine enough to choke isn't a challenge, but being able to dial in a shot with the stepped settings is. A stepless mod makes sense. Another problem with these grinders is the construction materials that wear out or break, and the availability of replacement parts.

However, they are small grinders, great for travel kits if you don't have room for a Lido or Lido 2, and I'm currently using a Hario Slim at work for pour over and press and have a Kyocera CM-45 CF in my Mypressi Twist espresso kit. I get a lot of fines and boulders with the Slim and get passable espresso with the Kyocera and my Twist, if I can dial in the shot so it's just short of choking and not a gusher.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

ChileBean (original poster)
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#4: Post by ChileBean (original poster) »

@ Burner0000

Thank you, and great suggestion. I assume you mean that you can simply unscrew the top thumb nut that is used to secure the handle, remove the locking piece from the grinder shaft, remove the supplied strange slotted nut thing provided by Hario, and substitute a simple M8 nylon lock nut. I guess the only consideration is that I would need to keep a wrench at my coffee bar to tweak the grind. Perfect!
Burner0000 wrote:No hands on with the CM-45 but I am currently using the Skerton exclusively for espresso. Swap out the stepped adjust disk with an M8 nyloc/posilock nut and you got yourself a stepless Hario Skerton. The nut holds it's place well too. I haven't had to re adjust yet. PM me if you decide to take that route and have anymore questions.

The mod itself cost's less than $1.

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Burner0000
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#5: Post by Burner0000 »

Exactly! You will still need the fork to keep the handle in place. I'll try to upload a pic for you tonight for reference. As for wear and tear grab a few M8 washers to replace the plastic washers inside the grinder and wear and tear won't be an issue. For a long time at least. I haven't found any wear and tear as of yet. It's been over a year now.

A final mod if you wanna go all the way is the OE PFP mod to stablaize the burr for grinding course. I think this mod even helps for espresso because the burrs will still move around even at a fine setting.

http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-Lower- ... _4066.html

I was able to get a $5 key chain wrench to go with my grinder. Makes it easy to adjust while travelling.


Adjusting is easy. Set the burrs to touch placing the handle at "12 o clock". This is your "0" point. Turn counterclockwise to between 6-7 o clock. This is espresso range. To repeat grinds I use a china pen mark on the neck and bolt in case I wanna go course and dial back fast.

I've included a pic of full grind range with the Skerton on this CG post if it helps.

https://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffe ... nes/657592
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..

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EvanOz85
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#6: Post by EvanOz85 »

Neither of those grinders can produce very good espresso. I wonder what your point of reference is.

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Burner0000
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#7: Post by Burner0000 »

I compare it to a commercial Macap MX stepless grinder. If it can produce results parallel to a stepless 65mm espresso grinder I'd say that qualifies as "very good espresso".
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..

pacificmanitou
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#8: Post by pacificmanitou replying to Burner0000 »

maybe with mods it can perform, till it wears out, or you wear out from the serious cranking required... Not to mention the skill needed to make it perform. Ill take the MX over the skerton.
LMWDP #366

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Burner0000
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#9: Post by Burner0000 »

So this is how the mod looks.



To reply to what pacific was saying. It will perform yes but it does require some good hand grinding. For a double shot. Grinding at a regular pace it takes 1-2 min. It's great for course tho I am able to stick it on top a small mason jar and grind away for a few large presses. Bottom like it's a great cheap alternative if your REALLY strapped for cash or want to travel without an electric espresso grinder.
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..