FotonDrv wrote:I have 2 electrics and 5, soon to be 6, hand grinders (although one is an antique and one a replica of one). She is starting to make noise about the hand grinders so maybe a sale in the future...

The Super Jolly-E as a single doser might be a good thing. & BTW, the Kony-E slides under the kitchen upper cabinets without a hopper on it.

Don't know what it is about coffee that makes things show up in the kitchen. They come in one at a time but when I look around I see almost a full counter dedicated to making just a single beverage. Odd to some, "normal" to me.

I have been fairly satisfied with my current 3 electric grinders. (2 brew and 1 espresso). I doubt that anything will come along to tempt me into "upgrading" and I am not disappointed any any of the remaining grinders to the point of thinning any of them

That Forte' BG sounds interesting for a brew grinder. How has it held up??

I have been drinking more pour over than espresso lately so it has received daily use.

I've only had the steel burr Forte-BG 5 months so not that much time on it and it is used in a home environment so it is used twice a day tops as I use the Preciso/Esatto as a brew grinder also.

It seems pretty solid and the grinds so far have been very consistent.

I did not like the shut off hopper that it came with as that style hopper seemed to capture beans on the shut off bearing supports so that I had to stick my fingers inside and poke them down into the burrs. I roast a variety of beans so I have gotten in the habit of leaving both of my brew grinders empty and grinding through all for a drippre's worth of coffee so that I can choose what I want to drink each time I make some pour over. since I have 2 brew grinders I am not all that exact on what I put in the hopper as if I over guess the other grinder is empty should I choose to grind something different for the next brew. I believe having 2 brew grinders is something that I will always stick with. Too convenient.

I've gone to the the old style funnel bean hopper and am happier with how it fits my needs. I did have to get one of the rubber gaskets and modify it to fit over the upper burr carriers as the funnel hopper was spilling grounds inside the grinder. Since doing that everything has stayed nice and clean.

That is about my only complaint and it is only related to the way I use the grinder not really a complaint or anything about the product or any kind of fault with it.

I don't think I could make a suggestion to make it better. It works and produces consistent ground coffee regardless of the setting. I uses a number of pour over methods so I do adjust the grinder up and down quite a bit to cover all of them (V-60, BeeHouse, Kalita wave, Chemex as well as press coffee).

I would strongly recommend it in its price range as it is "home kitchen sized" and is more than up to the job it was designed to do. I am interested to read the comments after it has been out in the commercial world for a year or two to see how they hold up grinding xx an hour rather than x a day like I am using mine

Joco wrote:Wow. Im surprised to hear this. Especially since most third wave coffee shops I goto has some type of Mazzer E-variant (SJ, Major, Robur or Kony) and yet they seem to be able to pull good shoots.

Does anyone know why this would be the case?

I have had a Major-E for a few months now (my dosered mini was reading this forum too much and feeling inadequate/lonely), and I have a couple of observations to offer. The first month or so I was single dosing the Major-E, mostly in an attempt to reduce waste (and partially out of old habit). I was having significant clumping issues. Getting good extractions took an extensive routine. WDT, RDT, etc. helped, but not to the extent I expected. Inconsistency was a major issue, and when I would periodically return to the Mini in a lot of ways I actually preferred it.

Then eventually I tried filling the Major's hopper and it became a totally different machine. Fluffy grinds, significantly less clumping, beautiful, consistent extractions. Also with a filled hopper, the same grind setting on the collar became the equivalent of several ticks finer. (I don't fully understand why back-pressure makes difference for the last one.)

I think the thing that some people maybe realize, but don't fully actualize, when upgrading to a large flat burr or conical (and especially the electronics) is that they are designed for shops pulling 100s of shots a day and not home use. While there may be an upgrade in the cup, it is going to come at a non-trivial cost regarding single dose usability and/or waste.

Part of the reason I wanted an electronic doser in the first place, was I assumed it was going to make my dosing ritual easier. Remove the all weighing. Waste less grinds than a doser. But practically speaking it doesn't really do either of those things, and in some ways it's actually a little more messy. When I was initially single dosing it required an elaborate time consuming ritual (using a giottos rocket blower) that could get my ground retention to .1-.2 grams, but it ultimately came at the cost of clumpy grinds and inconsistent shots (that required further work to mitigate). The lesser of two evils i'm learning to accept is wasting more coffee by filling the hopper and using the electronic dosing. I still have to weigh my grinds because there is a ~.5 gram variance with the electronic dosing, but my shots/grinds are much better now, so I'll take it.

elusiven wrote:I have had a Major-E for a few months now (my dosered mini was reading this forum too much and feeling inadequate/lonely), and I have a couple of observations to offer. The first month or so I was single dosing the Major-E, mostly in an attempt to reduce waste (and partially out of old habit). I was having significant clumping issues. Getting good extractions took an extensive routine. WDT, RDT, etc. helped, but not to the extent I expected. Inconsistency was a major issue, and when I would periodically return to the Mini in a lot of ways I actually preferred it.

Then eventually I tried filling the Major's hopper and it became a totally different machine. Fluffy grinds, significantly less clumping, beautiful, consistent extractions. Also with a filled hopper, the same grind setting on the collar became the equivalent of several ticks finer. (I don't fully understand why back-pressure makes difference for the last one.)

Thanks for the great post. It's interesting to read this. Your observations are what I secretly suspected. That many ppl that complain about issues wit the E grinders were single dosing, which I don't do. I pretty much stick with the same blend for a few months. This lets me keep a bi-weekly order going and my grinder settings don't change much.

Actually I don't understand single dosing completely. I'm not quite sure how people switch beans shot to shot and don't burn 3 shots just trying to dial in the grind.

So for me the SJ-E seems the way to go.

Joe

Joco wrote: Actually I don't understand single dosing completely. I'm not quite sure how people switch beans shot to shot and don't burn 3 shots just trying to dial in the grind.

I suspect for many, single dosing has nothing to do with the ability to switch beans from shot to shot, as you are right it would be super annoying/wasteful to have to dial-in constantly. It's just about control and minimizing waste in the process. Even when I have a blend/SO dialed-in, small adjustments are going to be required due to bean age, changes in humidity, etc. As the grinder needs to be running when I am making those adjustments (and my Major grinds 18g in like 4 seconds), with a full hopper I could conceivably waste an entire shot making an adjustment. Single dosing allows you to adjust constantly while running the grinder without wasting any beans. It also reduces grind retention (as you know what you are putting in and getting out) and allows you to employ techniques like RDT, etc.

If you already have a SJ, an SJ-e might be more of a horizontal upgrade than you would expect. Old annoying problems traded for new ones. Less thwacking, for sure, but you are still going to retains grinds due to either: them being blasted again the funnel and sticking (if you cleared the chute previously), or several grams retained in the chute that you can't easily brush out (thanks to the static guard). If you want to clear the chute, you need to blow it out, which is going to make a mess, as it produces a fine mist of grinds that usually gets on everything.

Electronic dosing grinders are designed to purposefully retain grinds in the chute (due to the anti-static screen). The back pressure from new grinds pushes the grinds out of the chute slowly. This works great in a shop setting because the retained grinds don't go stale, but if you are only grinding a few shots a day it means you either need to purge 3-5 grams of stale grinds every time you use it, or if you don't want to waste that much coffee, blow out the chute. I think in some ways dosers are actually better suited for home use. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but you might be better suited sticking with what you have and just dosing into a little shallow walled cup/modded yogurt container. I dose my Mini into this awesome little ceramic thing that St. Marcellin cheese (an readily available soft French cheese) comes in and it does a great job preventing any mess.

elusive wrote:... As the grinder needs to be running when I am making those adjustments (and my Major grinds 18g in like 4 seconds), with a full hopper I could conceivably waste an entire shot making an adjustment...

If you already have a SJ, an SJ-e might be more of a horizontal upgrade than you would expect...

Hmm.. Wonder if Im doing something wrong. I make all my adjustments while the grinder is off. Never seen to be a problem for me.

For the the grind retention issue is horrible. I use the Elvinator to keep from throwing grounds all over but the exit hole on the bottom of the doser gets filled with almost a 5-10g of ground beans that I have to keep brushing out... which aint easy.

I realize I may trade problems, but I can't imagine it will be any more waste than what I've got now and I honestly think it'll be a whole lot less messy.

elusiven wrote:As the grinder needs to be running when I am making those adjustments (and my Major grinds 18g in like 4 seconds), with a full hopper I could conceivably waste an entire shot making an adjustment.

Before I start a grind I know whether I will retain the current grind setting, raise it, or lower it so I am "ready to go" once I hit the timer. By by the time 1-2 seconds has elapsed the grind setting is readjusted. Maybe 15% of the dose might be off a "tad" but I am after a good tasting cup of coffee not a perfect one so as long as I am "close enough" this seems to fit "my requirements" (YMMV). I shoot for 20-24 seconds on the pull which is a large swing.

I have an automatic (Pasquini Livia auto) so adjusting the grind is the only way to deal with the pull time as the machine will shut off when the 2.25 oz volume programmed heavy double (18 gram dose) is finished passing through. As long as my grind is within that pull time "window" my pull taste good enough to drink.

This may not fit everyone's requirements but I am easy to please (hey I am happy to just have good tasting coffee). My philosophy is "to strive for the perfect pull every time" but I usually get something that is satisfactory and which I am happy with

I find that I rarely need to make setting adjustments until I refill the hopper with a different batch/roast/blend. That's when the fun starts but after 2-3 pulls everything settles down to the point that the new hopper of beans needs only minor tweaking.

I too found that keeping the hopper full makes a difference. I have the small mini hopper on my SJ so "full" means 1/2 - 3/4 lb of beans.

elusiven wrote:Electronic dosing grinders are designed to purposefully retain grinds in the chute (due to the anti-static screen). The back pressure from new grinds pushes the grinds out of the chute slowly. This works great in a shop setting because the retained grinds don't go stale, but if you are only grinding a few shots a day it means you either need to purge 3-5 grams of stale grinds every time you use it, or if you don't want to waste that much coffee, blow out the chute.

I ran my SJ with and without the A-stat screen during the modification as some of the parts took a week longer to arrive. Without the screen the dose was not consistent as some grounds always fell out of the chute, through the funnel and onto the grinder plate when the grinder was not in use or when someone walked through the kitchen (shaking the floor). So without the screen I had 2 problems. 1) inconstant dose as it would not retain grounds in the chute so each dose was different. 2) more of a mess than before as it could dump grounds anytime, not just when I was dosing. Once I put the A-stat screen in, the mess stopped and the dose consistency came within 0.5 gram accuracy which is "close enough for me with timer based dosing.

I get around the "morning stales" by making our first pull an Americano. Adding steamed milk (the wife adds sugar too) masks any "stale" in the first pull. Then after that first shot, should I choose, I can pull straight shots for myself (wife is not a straight espresso drinker, she needs her milk and sugar fix).

This is not the answer for a true coffee purist but I am just someone who enjoys coffee, not someone chasing the elusive dragon. I've improved my coffee making skills 100 fold over the years and this is enough for me. Yes, I know that I could do "better" but for now everything is "good enough" so I am happy and I am the one I need to please

elusiven wrote:I think in some ways dosers are actually better suited for home use. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but you might be better suited sticking with what you have and just dosing into a little shallow walled cup/modded yogurt container. I dose my Mini into this awesome little ceramic thing that St. Marcellin cheese (an readily available soft French cheese) comes in and it does a great job preventing any mess.

No matter what I tried with the hand doser I could not get a messless dose. Yes, I could have modified the hand doser but since I "just enjoy" drinking a decent cup of coffee the effort to modify and still do the single dose dance was not my cup of tea (well coffee as I don't like tea as much as coffee). It was the wife's complaining about "your grinder pooping again, you need to clean it up" that was the driving force in the dosesrless modification not a better tasting cup.

I think clumping issue also depends on weather. I'm using SJE with mini short hopper. I do keep beans around half hopper. I still got clumping a lot.

My friend use Kony-e, with its standard hopper, with nearly full hopper. It still has a little clumping, but very soft and easy to distribute. However, K30 do get much better distribution and more fluffy.

Well, My SJ-E arrived and after screwing around with this thing and a pound of beans later. I am beginning to wonder if I made a big mistake (luckily I still have my doser-ed).

I've got the grind just about perfect, but I am getting big clumps (static guard in place, finger guard removed). The clumps are so bad that I cannot use the NSEW distribution technique that worked so well before... since the clumps drag big gouges in the grounds. Also I am having horribly uneven extractions. Sure I had uneven extraction with the dosered SJ but they were minimal to what Ive got now.

So is this just "getting used to" a new machine? Or was I really better off with with what I had?